Ukraine invasion “veterans” are bigger problem for Russia than ones from prior two wars

An armed personnel carrier with Russian mercenaries in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: inforesist.org)

An armed personnel carrier with Russian mercenaries in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: inforesist.org) 

2015/04/22 • Analysis & Opinion, Russia

Because of the nature of the war in Ukraine and the kind of people who have gone to fight there, Donbas “veterans” suffer from a special “Donbas syndrome” and constitute a bigger threat to themselves and to society when they return to Russia than did the veterans of the Afghan and Chechen wars before them, according to Russian psychologists.

“In the near term, Russia will face a phenomenon which could be worse than those which followed the end of the Afghan and Chechen wars,” Kirill Krivosheyev says in surveying the opinions of experts, and that is something psychologists and law enforcement personnel are only beginning to think about.

A pro-Russia fighter holds up a toy found among the debris at the crash site of MH17. (Image: Dmitry Lovetsky/AP)

Russian mercenaries taking pictures with personal items of victims among the debris at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in Donbas, Ukraine. (Image: Dmitry Lovetsky/AP)

“From the war in the eastern portion of Ukraine will be returning volunteers and mercenaries, people who, unlike the soldiers of a regular army, have not passed through any, even a cursory check-up by a psychiatrist or drug addiction specialist,” the journalist continues. And he asks, “will we be able to live alongside them” when they get back?

The fact that war inflicts terrible psychological damage on those who engage in it is common knowledge. Russians already routinely speak about an “Afghan syndrome” and a “Chechen syndrome” as ways of identifying the consequences of two most recent conflicts. Now, they are beginning to talk about a “Donbas syndrome” and to think about the post-traumatic stress syndrome it involves.
 

Crudely speaking, good boys will destroy themselves; bad ones will destroy everything around them…


Besides the post-traumatic stress syndrome that one would expect, there are other problems including alcohol and drug dependence, according to Aleksandra Bukhanovskaya, head of the Phoenix Rehabilitation Center in Rostov. And those problems are far greater with the Donbas “veterans” than they were with those from earlier conflicts, she says.

Russian mercenaries in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: uainfo.org)

Russian mercenaries in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: uainfo.org)

The reasons are not far to seek. “It is unlikely that someone who is mentally ill will be taken into an army, but in the case of volunteers, that is completely possible,” she says, adding that this war as a result may serve as a trigger for the manifestation of the problems which led those who went to the Donbas to go in the first place.

As a result, those who return are likely to find it especially difficult to re-adapt to society, their families and jobs and thus to fall into depression or criminal activity. And that activity may take violent forms, Bukhanovskaya continues, because such people are all too ready to blame others and to use the techniques that worked for them in combat.

And few of them are likely to seek help, not only because of the stigma involved but also because they are the very last people to believe that they have a problem, she says. There are hundreds, if not thousands of such people in Rostov, but only one has sought psychological help in her institution, the doctor says.

Officials are already worried about the way in which such “veterans” are inclined to turn to criminal activities. In Rostov, law enforcement agencies have issued 11 announcements about such things in the first 2.5 months of this year, more than all such releases made during 2014.

Devastation caused by Russian artillery firing on Ukrainian troops near the village of Shyrokyne (Image from @OSCE_SMM)

Devastation caused by Russian artillery firing on Ukrainian troops near the village of Shyrokyne in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: @OSCE_SMM)

Stanislav Gushchenko, a military psychologist, says that the ability of former combatants to adapt back into civilian life has, in his view, less to do with whether they were volunteers or compelled to fight than with the social milieu from which they came. And in that too, the Donbas “veterans” are a bigger problem than their predecessors.

Russians drafted or coming from villages are more likely to have had run-ins with the law and thus to view the world in black or white terms than are those from cities, he says; and those who have fought in the Donbas are more likely to come from the villages than from the cities – and they are also more likely to have survived and return home more aggressive than they were.

Russian cossacks in Donbas, Ukraine (Image: nr2.com.ua)

Some Russian Cossack mercenaries in Donbas, Ukraine posing for camera (Image: nr2.com.ua)

“Crudely speaking,” Gushchenko says, “good boys will destroy themselves; bad ones will destroy everything around them… In war, [the fighter] is a superman. He is fulfilling a holy patriotic task and being paid; but the main thing is that by force of arms you can change the fate of people and receive all that you want.” On return to civilian life, everything changes.

Some of the returning Donbas “veterans” will be attracted to simple criminal activity; others will get involved in groups like certain Cossack organizations that want to use force against those they don’t like or approve of – and that too constitutes a serious threat to Russian society, Krivosheyev says.

Edited by: A. N.

Tags: , , , ,

  • Ihor Molodecky

    How can Russian psychologists openly talk of a “Donbas Syndrome” and even of “Donbas veterans” ? Have they not been told by their president that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine? Who would have believed it…..Putin telling lies ? Tell me it isn’t true…

    • Dagwood Bumstead

      The article is primarily about the Russian mercenaries and unofficial volunteers rather than the regular Russian army. But the problems will also show up there, though to a lesser extent as these troops have to undergo a rigorous examination before they are accepted for service.

    • Borys Potytorsky

      this is true, there are no ruSSians in Ukraine after all putler and laffrov keep telling us that.

      • LorCanada

        Ahh, don’t be so naive!! ;- )

        • Borys Potytorsky

          I was being sarcastic, of course there are katsaps crawling all over the place

    • LorCanada

      Yes, unfortunately Putin tells lies and these days few believe what he says.

    • LorCanada

      I think most of the Neo Nazis are located in Moscow. There are some 53 registered NEO NAZI groups in Russia and I’m sure sly Putin is aware of them.
      When President Poroshenko was voted in as the new leader of Ukraine by the Ukrainian people, he received 52% or 54% of the vote on May 25, 2014, whereas the Nazi party only got 2% of the vote. So, you see it show you that Nazis have no place in Ukraine’s government.

      • LorCanada

        And you are mistaken. In recent months Ukraine has been clearing out their Russian spies and further “undesirables”, so not to worry, they are doing their job of improving their Govt. representatives.

        I consider Fascist Putin as a prime example of wannabee dictatorship. Sad but true.

        As to Neo Nazis in Russia, you can read all about it on these websites:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Russia

        In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, “In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world’s total.”[76]

        https://www.google.ca/search?q=Neo+Nazis+in+Russia&oq=Neo+Nazis+in+Russia&aqs=chrome..69i57.4608j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

        • LorCanada

          ok, thanks. bye bye ………

        • Gouzenko

          “your media” . Thanks for identifying yourself. You guys always slip up. Been there and seen it all. LOL

        • LorCanada

          No, 2014.

          • LorCanada

            Nonetheless, the 2% is not sufficient for Nazis to be involved in Ukraine government. – bye bye.

      • Gouzenko

        You and Hristo are doing your good cop/ bad cop routine. He’s the ignorant, rude one and you are much smoother. Same message though. Do you work together? You’re Canadian…eh?

      • LorCanada

        ..

      • Brent

        Could you remind us what the Ukrainian constitution says about when the chickensh*t thieving President flees the country with billions stolen from Ukraine?

        It’s amazing you are this stupid to keep trying to spin the ‘democratically elected Yanukovych’ theme. Even the Kremlin gave this up. They could never of dreamed a useful idiot like yourself would still be parroting their lies over a year late.

        • The truth

          Even without MAIDAN, putin had already several months before decided to remove that coward and thief. EU fears for putin were becoming more and more threatening.

        • The truth

          You are following the line of conduct of mr putin. THE FUTURE OF THE PAST , and you are a primal adept.

      • Michel Cloarec

        I always thought that the pro-russian terrorists were nazis in the nonorosea cesspit .

        • Brent

          Excellent photo! I hope you don’t mind if I borrow that and use it for future posts.

          I can see you also dislike “Cassielies” as much as I do…she’s a miserable old lying troll…

          • Michel Cloarec

            Use the photo as much as you want ! The truth but nothing than the truth must prevail.

            Miserable is a nice word for people like cassandra . In fact the ethnologists use the word TRAGEDY !

            Cassandra was the daughter of King Priam and Queen Hecuba of Troy.

            A common version of her story is that Apollo gave her the power of prophecy in order to seduce her, but when she spat at him, he gave her the curse of never being believed. In an alternative version, she fell asleep in a temple, and snakes licked (or whispered in) her ears so that she was able to hear the future. Snakes as a source of knowledge is a recurring theme in Greek mythology, although sometimes the snake brings understanding of the language of animals rather than an ability to know the future. Cassandra is a figure of both epic tradition and of tragedy.

    • Gryzelda Wrr

      He says there are no Russians in Ukraine, but who knows where Ukraine begins according to Putin.

    • Michel Cloarec

      The dilemma of cassandra is the blatant lies ! Lies and fantasy picked up from RT and Sputnik . never makes any checking, just copy !

  • Wonfu

    “From the war in the eastern portion of Ukraine will be returning
    volunteers and mercenaries, people who, unlike the soldiers of a regular
    army, have not passed through any, even a cursory check-up by a
    psychiatrist or drug addiction specialist.”

    Balderdash!!

    What a line of BS.

    According to the dwarf in the kremlin:

    1) There is no war in Ukraine
    2) Ukraine is not a legitimate country
    3) There are no russian troops in Ukraine only ‘vacationers’.

    This is a lame attempt to legitimize russian aggression in Ukraine.

    There is no ‘check-up’ as stated above because the russian bodies recruited for fighting in Ukraine are contracted for a pittance of rubles and all they want are warm bodies to fill their ranks of fodder.
    Russia will reap what they sow and no one will care what the returning criminals fighting in Ukraine do with the rest of their sorry life.

    • LorCanada

      To; Wonfu — Well said, thanks. Rather amusing summary at that, and true.
      I really don’t know what those “russian bodies recruited” can expect from their excursions into Ukraine’s sovereign territory, I mean, they will be lucky if they get paid anything or get a pension if they live long enough.
      It’s also very clear Putin does not want to be burdened by the responsibility of caring for his precious Russian speakers (he told them they’d be better off within Ukrainian rule), and the armed criminals/ terrorists/ rebels/ separatists certainly do not have the money to support the locals. Nor do the armed criminals have the funds to rebuild the areas they have turned to rubble (bridges blown up, railways destroyed, mines flooded, residential buildings full of holes, etc.). Question: WHO WILL REBUILD east Ukraine?
      Putin and his armed henchmen should pack up and GET OUT OF UKRAINE.

      • Wonfu

        You are welcome. 8>)
        Who will pay for the rebuilding of Eastern Ukraine will probably be determined in the world court when Ukraine sues Russia for damages.

      • Borys Potytorsky

        He will???? With what??

        • Borys Potytorsky

          cassie cassie, how naive you are that the Donbass will be restored under russki occupation. Check this picture of Abknazia, does this look restored under russki occupation?

          • Michel Cloarec

            RUSSIA NEVER BUILD AGAIN ! Russia never repair !

          • Borys Potytorsky

            so who invaded Crimea? by the way how is the tourist trade doing there? who invaded Abkhazia? please help

          • Borys Potytorsky

            nobody invaded crimea except thousands of very polite little green men from mars, aka the ruSSia. I am really surprised that you did not know that. but seriously cassie you would not know that as you a totally brainwashed troll girl or boy or trannie-your choice.

          • Borys Potytorsky

            I am still waiting for your reply

          • Michel Cloarec

            anyone ever read something more idiotical ?

        • Michel Cloarec

          FANTASIES COPYING FROM THE LYING RT

      • LorCanada

        …,,

      • Michel Cloarec

        Zakhsomething is a bluff and useful idiot !

    • Brent

      Go back to Fort Russ where you can keep spinning your lies you delusional old bat.

  • Wonfu

    Burp!
    Sorry Sucker comes online to bash the West like a good lap dog to the dwarf in the kremlin.

    How’s it going on the ‘night shift’ Boris?

    Had your biscuit n swig of cheap vodka? lol

    Oh n NULAND NULAND NULAND da da da!

  • Wonfu

    Have you kissed the Super Bowl ring Stalinke stole??

  • Wonfu

    Pure hogwash!
    Did Stalinke give you a reach around last night?

  • misusan

    Putler… needs a psychiatrist. mental. killing people that had nothing to do with your stupid KGB. stupid self…

    • LorCanada

      Fortunately, the Ukrainians are surviving well enough in spite of Putin’s ruthless (hell bent) desire to destroy them and their economy. In time it will be shown that the Russians are the idiots who invaded Ukraine and caused so much death and destruction – all due to Putin.

      • LorCanada

        Don’t be so foolish. Putin’s so-called “aid” white trucks illegally entered Ukraine territory and stole their commercial high tech equipment in east Ukraine. Miserly Putin even stole their COAL! How low is that for a leader? It’s pathetic.
        You will be happy to know that Ukraine is receiving a great deal of aid and support in many ways from several other countries. This is in stark contrast to greedy Putin who is ruthless in trying to destroy Ukraine and its economy.

        • LorCanada

          And you are an ignorant uncouth twit. bye bye …………

  • misusan

    https://youtu.be/Q-b6uN7SUio rogozin/// the best russian/ eva/

  • Borys Potytorsky

    get rid of putler and all his terrorists in eastern Ukraine and all will be good-I promise

    • LorCanada

      Corrupt Putin is also demonstrating poor leadership and blaming others for his bad decisions. He has caused the murder of Nemtsov, as you know, and that is such as dark mark against him. People question how much Putin is behind the ruthless murder done near the Kremlin and who will be next.
      The Ukrainian government is improving step by step and they have a lot of support from other nations, so not to worry, they will survive and grow as a nation. When Putin and his goons get out of Ukraine it will be much better too!

      • LorCanada

        Hristo — You are offensive and insulting. I will report you.

        • LorCanada

          You are not civilized, I can see that. Do you usually go around insulting women, calling them prostitutes? SHAME ON YOU!!

          • LorCanada

            Stop being an idiot and read the news. This dates back to last year:

            Endemic corruption swallows up around a third of Russia’s GDP , and weakens property rights and investor protection.

            according to the InDem Foundation

            These deficiencies were highlighted most visibly by the … and both involving active government

            expropriation of Yukos Oil Hermitage Capital,complicity.

            But the practice of reiderstvo, in which the legal system is misused to seize or extort legitimate businesses, is much more widespread and probably involves thousands of cases every year. The effect is to undermine economic activity by deterring investment and stifling entrepreneurship. Why bother to start a business when a cabal of corrupt politicians, prosecutors and judges could abuse their positions of authority to take it away from you?

            This explains why small and medium businesses contribute such a low proportion of Russian GDP — 24% compared to 58% for the EU.

            Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev bemoans the fact that the most ambitious Russian graduates would rather find a sinecure within the state apparatus than go into business, but the message that it’s easier to seize wealth than create it comes from the very top of government.

          • LorCanada

            Why don’t you take a nice cold shower and start to think like a human being? You are dumb and offensive and I will report you. Got that?

            There is plenty of corruption in Russia. Read the article and learn.

          • Borys Potytorsky

            hristo is ignorant-and you cannot fix stupid

          • Borys Potytorsky

            nice try but these russian trolls cannot learn, reading presents many difficulties to them.

          • LorCanada

            ……,,,,,,,…,

          • Borys Potytorsky

            the trouble is putin is corrupt-his cronies are corrupt-google and find out “smart guy”

        • Borys Potytorsky

          ruSSia and logic–an oxymoron

    • Borys Potytorsky

      ruSSian promises are not worth the paper they are written on, everyone knows that—-a giveaway that clearly shows no intelligence and quite frankly is typical katsap behaviour. Remember the Budapest Agreement? I do. after all you guys just came down from the trees

      • Borys Potytorsky

        This is the real secret story-(for your eyes only) of the Maidan. Yanukoych instigated the Maidan because he realized that the banks in Ukraine could not hold all the money he stole from Ukraine. He needed an excuse to flee with all the money to a safe haven and obviously he choose mosckow. There the banks were empty since putin and his cronies do not keep their money there but in the West. In mosckow the natives are friendly to him, putin likes him and the banks accepted his money so the problem was solved. That is the true story not some cockamanie idea that the US is behind the Maidan-that is nonsense. By the way the ruSSian language is a broken asiatic version of Ukrainian, linguists around the world have stated this over and over again.

        • Borys Potytorsky

          My sources are from the ruSSia, for obvious security reasons I cannot divulge them here, suffice to say good sources. Anything from the ruSSia is the truth, right?

      • Borys Potytorsky

        I hear alot of english words in ruSSian too

      • Brent

        And I hear a lot of lies coming out of your wrinkled yap. Three words for you Grandma Tea Party….the third one is “yourself”. Can you guess the other two?

  • LorCanada

    Unfortunately there is a lot of garbage (i.e. Putin’s propaganda) being written day in and day out. The ruskie hacksters are good are rehashing old, very old, news and old excuses and not thinking for themselves at all. They get paid, you know, and even get a free lunch.

    • LorCanada

      And you do too. bye bye ………………………

  • LorCanada

    Wars create a lot of syndromes, let’s be honest, and most soldiers are lucky to come back unscathed either physically, mentally, or spiritually.
    We can thank sly Putin for this senseless “proxy” war against Ukraine whose only crime it seems is that they wished to develop along western lines. And since Ukraine is a sovereign nation they have every right to decide for themselves without the meddlesome interference of Putin or any other country.
    Bully Putin should take his tanks, missiles, and mercenaries and GET OUT OF UKRAINE. GO HOME TO MOTHER RUSSIA!!

    • Brent

      Really? Can you explain why Yanukovych negotiated for almost two years with the EU on the Association agreement? Why did he even go to Vilnius in November of 2013?

      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25162563

      Either you are incredibly stupid or an incredibly bad liar.

      • Ken Sears

        Exactly. Cassandra is one of those DESPERATE Putin Trolls holed up in a bare room with a bank of computers browsing the Internet for every article relating to this crisis, and for the money they need to put food on the table (in Putin’s Economic Paradise, where every Russian dictator can become a billionaire!) they’ll say anything and defend anything that makes Uncle Volodya happy. It’s unspeakably pathetic.

  • LorCanada

    Putin has already dug himself into a hole by his playing war games.

  • just someone old

    Bigger problem is
    Criminals that went fighting in Ukraine went out of opportunism
    But as every good criminal, you do not trust the government
    After fighting in Eastern Ukraine & seeing how the russian government & media acts, their mistrust is confirmed.
    So when they return, the Russian state has no moral supperiority for them anymore.
    Result : The law of the gun prevails
    They will regard the russian state and services just as an other criminal gang
    Result : prepare yourself for the worst Russia, you built your own troyan horse

    • Czech Friend

      I so wish Putler being brought down by his own evil.

  • misusan
  • misusan

    https://youtu.be/xiCkMN-bFFc a sheep from plovdiv. no offence

  • Vlad Pufagtinenko

    All good news

  • Michel Cloarec

    THEY WENT TO WAR FOR PUTIN GLORY THEY ALREADY WERE NUT CASES, SO THEY WILL BE MORE NUT CASES . RUSSIA TO DEAL WITH THEM AS RUSSIA DOES WITH NUT CASES ! RELY ON RUSSIA , THERE ARE SPECIAL HOSPITALS FOR NUT CASES

    • Michel Cloarec

      Do these guys look like if they needed help ?

      • The truth

        Exactly ! To have to go to fight for something which they do not believe is right, will put them directly into the arms of the psychiatric institut in moscow.

  • Vol Ya

    Good, let those returning Russian swine contribute to the demise of Russia. How appropriate.

  • Ken Sears

    In Vladimir Putin’s Economic Paradise, EVERY absolute dictator can become a billionaire!

    • The truth

      Are you crazy or what ?

      Militia” to “laundering” of marked banknotes (photo)

      17.04.2015 08:13 Society

      In the occupied territory of Donbass “laundered” began to appear, and more precisely painted, notes in denominations of 20 UAH. They were marked with a blue dye, secure vaults at the time of the unauthorized hacking, conducted by militants. Now labeled edges treated special paint in the color of the background notes, the spots become almost unnoticeable. About it on his Facebook page said one of the locals.

      “The people are resourceful. Elongated ATMs money with traces of bright blue paint, they decided to do similar to regular money, stroking on top of blue paint color, as the main background notes. We should pay tribute to the efforts of the nose — until the seller do not tknët, you won’t notice a. .. Unpleasant, “he wrote.
      Carpenter’s took control of currency exchange points in the “LNR”

      17.04.2015 12:15 Society

      Currency exchange offices in Luhansk people’s Republic “came under the control of the” LNR “Igor Carpentry. As reported by informator.lg.ua , source close to the rebels, each “exchanger” is paying a “tax”, which is the head of the Republic. “It is not a secret. Any change knows that tax is Carpentry “, commented source.

      As previously reported, the leader of the “LNR” relates to the sale of fuels in the occupied territories. The petrol stations Of Russian contraband petrol for sale. Revenues from trade gets LNR Igor Carpenter’s. It is also known that the scrap market in the “LNR” placed under the control of the head of the “LNR”. Supermarkets Captured on the territory of the Republic is controlled by family members in the “LNR”. Recall also that the leader of the militia of Stakhanov Pavel Drëmov publicly accused the Carpentry in the theft and fraud by the Russian humanitarian aid. In addition, the business interests of the Republic “is a chain of supermarkets” people’s “(formerly” ATB “). It was earlier reported that through these stores is humanitarian aid from the Russian convoys.

      It was also reported that the head of the “LNR” bought a property near Moscow.

      Carpenter accused of embezzlement

      02.04.2015 14:05 War

      The auditors from Russia revealed the fact that waste 20 million hryvnas, assigned to the “LNR” on the development of the so-called “people’s militia”. As reported by informator.lg.ua closed source, in Lugansk Commission came from Russia. The purpose of the visit was an inspection of the “LNR” security forces for combat readiness. “They visited the sites, checked, how money is spent,” the source explained. During inspections and identified the fact of embezzlement.
      The head of the “LNR” still detained in Russia-MEDIA

      28.04.2015 15:43 The incident

      The head of the Lugansk national Republic Igor Carpenter’s detained in Russia. Reported by news agency REGNUM INFORMS with reference to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation.

      Carpenter’s figured out how to trick the Russians with gumanitarkoj

      27.04.2015 10:17 Society

      The “LNR” started perefasovyvat’ humanitarian assistance, brought in Russian humanitarian convoys. As reported by informator.lg.ua closed source, for this purpose are the captured warehouses along the street Lutuginskoj in the so-called “fifth kilometer”. “Struggling with sales from gumanitarki, Russians began to be her in the box labeled” not for resale “. In warehouses at perefasovyvaût and send it to Lutuginskoj for sale in supermarkets, “the source said.

      Recall that at the end of last year, the leader of the militia of Stakhanov Pavel Drëmov publicly accused the Carpentry in the theft and fraud by the Russian humanitarian aid. In addition, the business interests of the chapter “Republic” in dit «national supermarkets chain “(formerly” ATB “). It was earlier reported that through these stores is humanitarian aid from the Russian convoys.

      The “LNR” plan to officially allow brothels and prostitution. As reported by informator.lg.ua , an informed source close to the “Government” of the “Republic”, such a step would not only bring new taxes in the budget, but also attract businessmen.

      IS THAT THE DREAM YOU DEFEND ? ok, YOU ARE CRAZY !

      • The truth

        errare humanum est ! You are not crazy, you are insane !
        En plus être idiote , ne vous donne pas le prix de la connerie .

  • LorCanada

    …..,,,,,

  • LorCanada

    .,.,.,.,

  • The truth

    The young guys which have to go to war in the name of RF , because they are told to do , without convictions , but because it is expected that they will go, will be the ones who will be most traumatized . Therefore when they will be back home, some will be good boys and some will be bad boys. Already the good boys are conscient and changed sides which was the best they could do. The bad boys probably radicalized will also be back home, but radicals and not understand why they had to retreat. Disapointed by the system , they will revolt in an anarchist way. RF will have to watch those characters and act accordingly. The same will not apply in the same dimension for the ukrainian guys, because Ukraine was attacked . The differences between these situations will make a big difference in their state of mind.

  • The truth

    You need 2 par of glasses . One to see around you , and one to read about the miseries in Voroshilovgrad. The thugs in the fumes of vodka, and their love for anarchism are building up some sort of mini sovjet land. The people there are tired !

  • Michel Cloarec

    PROVE IT ! if you are so smart !

    • The truth

      Plenty words for nothing ! Because you can´t prove it !
      That photo is not from the webb. When you say that you can´t prove it . I will tell you who did take the photo.

      • Michel Cloarec

        You did not prove anything ! it makes you angry as a bee , You can´t tell about the photo. Because you can´t find it .
        The lpr/dpr junta is a nazi nest and the photo proves it.
        But not, you deny without convictions.
        You are disapointed, that an info doesn´t correspond to your wishes to paint Ukraine as a demon ! The traces of propaganda from radio kremlin is so obvious , that you are making a fool of yourself at any cost,even to loose any credibility.

  • The truth

    With what ?