Ukrainians must not waste the chance offered by Maidan

Photo: Gleb Garanich (Reuters)

Photo: Gleb Garanich (Reuters) 

Analysis & Opinion

Article by: Vitaly Portnikov

Ukrainians need to understand one simple thing. As a result of Maidan, we succeeded in replacing a foreign power that was very effective, especially when it came to the interests of thugs and the Kremlin, with one that was not particularly effective but ours.

During each anniversary of Maidan one hears the usual words about disillusionment and about the government that came to power “thanks to the blood” of the defenders of the main square of the country but which failed to “live up” to hopes and expectations.

These complaints would be justified only if the goal of Maidan had been to establish some kind of government or to fight for the interests of political forces or their leaders. But there was nothing of the sort during the 2013-2014 years. Those who comment on the 2013-2014 Maidan are confusing it with the 2004 Maidan. At that time, many of the protestors really were placing their hopes on the presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko. The Maidan itself began after the presidential elections and was part of the plan to protect the voting results from being manipulated by those in power.

And, indeed, many of the protestors were soon disappointed by their chosen candidate because they expected him to bring about not simply changes but a better life. The fact that the “orange” team was not a team of reformers and soon quarreled was not even the issue, but rather the fact that the last period of its rule coincided with a global economic crisis that affected Ukraine as well.

This is why many of the former Yushchenko voters voted for the “strong manager” Viktor Yanukovych in the hope that the former criminal would bring order to the country. And Yanukovych did. But people did not draw conclusions either from Yushchenko’s rule nor from the established “order.”

Most Ukrainians still do not want to understand that an effective government emerges only in an effective society. And not the reverse.

The 2013-2014 Maidan was primarily an uprising “against” and not an uprising  “for.” An uprising against Yanukovych, against injustice, against attempts to “surrender Ukraine to Russia.” The EU flags that delighted the West were what remained in Maidan from the student actions in support of European integration.

But hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets only after the beating of the students. They came out because they were outraged by injustice, and their one key motto, which I saw and heard clearly on December 1, 2013, was ” out with the zek (criminal) !” The political leaders were not the initiators of this protest by thousands; they were only the intermediaries between the citizens and the government that the citizens wanted to remove.

At the same time, these political leaders had the critical task of safeguarding the state, which under conditions of mass protests in the capital and in the western and central regions of the country could have lost control and become easy prey for the former metropolis. The fact that such fears were realistic was confirmed by Russia’s seizure of Crimea and parts of the Donbas immediately after Viktor Yanukovych’s flight from Ukraine.

The 2013-2014 uprising represents only the chance to build a new country. At the same time, we must realize that were it not for the annexation of Crimea, the war in the Donbas, and the artificial elimination from the voter lists of millions of pro-Russian supporters, who ended up on  “the other side” of the line of demarcation, this chance, even after Maidan, would have been minimal.

About half of the country was hostile or indifferent to Maidan. Feelings began to change only after the beginning of the war. But most importantly, neither the residents of Crimea, nor a large portion of the inhabitants of the Donbas, were able to vote for their traditional choices.

This is why we need to understand that the situation that has arisen today represents a window of opportunity that may soon close down for many years.

There may be various reasons. Elections of populists who will be unable to cope with the tasks of rebuilding the country. Restoration of territorial integrity that will return millions of pro-Russian supporters to the voter lists. Deterioration of the governing crisis in the West, which may ultimately exclude Ukraine from the foreign policy priorities of the civilized world.

Each circumstance can not only ensure there will be no “better life” for a long time but also lead to the collapse of the country along the well-known borders of geopolitical influence.

The chance to build a united democratic and successful country still exists — even though it is decreasing with each passing day. But this chance demands responsibility — both on the part of the government and of society.

The government must strive to make the processes of such state-building irreversible — even despite public sentiments and fears of low ratings during elections.

Society must give up anarchy and learn to respect state institutions even when the individual citizen believes they contain inferior representatives of the establishment.

Society must learn to control the government. Citizens themselves must go into government — primarily at the local level.

Citizens must be ready to finance their political and social activity themselves — the state cannot be built on the handouts from big business. Therefore, the average Ukrainian must take full responsibility for himself not only during rebellion but also during the process of building  a state. Otherwise nothing will happen.

We must understand one simple thing. As a result of Maidan, we succeeded in replacing a foreign power that was very effective, especially when it came to the interests of thugs and the Kremlin, with one that was not particularly effective but ours

But if there is no understanding of this fact, the next government will be foreign as well.

Translated by: Anna Mostovych
Source: Espreso TV

Tags: , ,

  • Screwdriver

    “About half of the country was hostile or indifferent to Maidan.”
    – This should be added to Wikipedia about Maidan.
    Even Portnikov had to admit very unpleasant situation. Wow..

    • zorbatheturk

      Farkov.

    • slavko

      This is the complete thought by the author not just the one sentence you posted… “About half of the country was hostile or indifferent to Maidan. Feelings began to change only after the beginning of the war.”

      In other words the indifference about internal affairs was about 50-50, but after Russia invaded Ukraine the tide of opinion in Ukraine shifted against Russia.

      • Screwdriver

        “shifted against Russia”
        Not necessarily. Thousands of Ukrainian troops (mostly in Crimea) who switched sides…maybe they were indifferent to Maidan before , but then ” feelings began to change only after the beginning of the war”, and then they became hostile to Maidan.
        Looks like more people will be against Maidan now, after new sensational Italian documentary.
        And not just that, many people dissapointed , almost none of the anti-corruption cases ended with sentence, new corruption is blooming.
        Where is the Europeiskiy Val – “the wall” ??? – nema, i hroshei nema. Where is Gontareva ? Nema ? I hroshei nema…..What about “Privatbank” ? Hde hroshi ??? In Panama accounts of Petro Oleksiyovych ?
        etc..etc..etc…

        • slavko

          But you can’t use quotations from the article and then insert a few of your own, simply because you are skewing the meaning of the article away from what the author intended. You see now it looks like you have an agenda to run and will stoop at nothing to force your agenda to fit. Just like a “Putin”. Why don’t you just go and write your own article without plagiarizing certain words from other writers?

          • Screwdriver

            Well, I am fine with his original statement, about how many people supported Maidan.
            But weather supporters of Maidan increased (or “shifted against Russia” ) since then or not , that is another story and subject to discussion.

          • slavko

            From the article… “The 2013-2014 Maidan was primarily an uprising “against” and not an uprising “for.” An uprising against Yanukovych, against injustice, against attempts to “surrender Ukraine to Russia.” The EU flags that delighted the West were what remained in Maidan from the student actions in support of European integration.”

          • Screwdriver

            And ?

          • slavko

            And… then this part from the article as well… “But hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets only after the beating of the students. They came out because they were outraged by injustice, and their one key motto, which I saw and heard clearly on December 1, 2013, was ” out with the zek (criminal) !” The political leaders were not the initiators of this protest by thousands; they were only the intermediaries between the citizens and the government that the citizens wanted to remove.”

            There comes a time in every nation’s ‘life’ that autocracy must come to an end. The violence of the government upon its own people must stop if the government is truly representative of the people, instead of special interest groups, like the government of Russia represents only the oligarchs.

          • Screwdriver

            Well, this still does not change the fact that at least half of the Ukrainians , even per Portnikov, did not care about Maidan.
            How many people were on the streets of Kiev ? (3 mln residents ) 60000 ? , most of them raguls ?

          • slavko

            Your “facts” are BOOLSH*T :) And you must have a reading comprehension issue. When the government agents and police started beating up and shooting people was when the population woke up and said enough is enough. That in essence is the true spirit of Maidan. People in Ukraine have ballz which the Russian people have yet to discover their own.

          • Screwdriver

            How many people were on Maidan ?

          • slavko

            Numbers fluctuated from day to day and week to week. However, it was the largest ever pro-European rally in history. When the government police started beating people, especially students, that was when the number of protestors picked up dramatically and protests were being held throughout Ukraine against the government of Yanukovitch.

            After violence by the government forces against protestors, the nuumbers swelled in the middle of severe winter to anywhere between 400,000 to 800,000. That was according to Russian friend of Ukraine Boris Nemtsov who was then later assassinated right in front of the Kremlin, the highest security zone in all of Russia. That in itself is interesting. Who would possibly want to murder Nemtsov in Russia? Hmm…

          • Screwdriver

            Do you need google translate ?
            https://echo.msk.ru/blog/ilya_afanasyev/1230894-echo/

            Also,
            “the Western region of Ukraine was the leader of Maidan protests; 38% of protests were reported there (not less than 1218 protests). The Central region of Ukraine was ahead of Kyiv as well (29%; at least 918 protests). Therefore, two thirds of Maidan protest events occurred in the Western and Central regions outside of Kyiv. In the East and the South of Ukraine (without Donbass and Crimea), 8% of protests occurred in each region; in Donbass (3%) and Crimea (1%)
            https://euromaidanberlin.wordpress.com/2014/07/29/the-real-face-of-maidan-statistics-from-protests-that-changed-the-country/

          • slavko

            From your last link the most noteworthy is the following:
            “Our analysis indicates that violence by the protesters was a response to the violence by government, not vice versa. While only 12% of Maidan protests were violent, every third protest suffered from repressions. The agents of the repressions against Maidan protests were not only law enforcement. Besides the police, at least a quarter of repressions were committed by unknowns, often called as ‘titushkas’ – paid pro-government thugs (moreover, in a considerable amount of events they acted with the police). The courts were also activein at least 13% of repressions.”

            “…. At the beginning of Maidan, attempts to undermine demonstrations and court injunctions prevailed, but, as time went on, the methods became more radical. The government started actively using the courts for direct repressions against activists, and the pressure of police and number of arrests increased. Finally, the government blocked the protestors at Maidan and proceeded to use violence openly.”

          • MichaelA

            he gave up
            he couldnt hack it

          • slavko

            Your 1st link Echo Moskva doesn’t take into account that there were protestors in streets beyond the square. Also the total number of protestors is not just for the Maidan in Kyiv but for throughout all of Ukraine. That’s my interpretation.

          • Geralt von RIva
          • slavko
          • Geralt von RIva

            thats what they wrote here also. one shouldnt pay so much attention to his tweets or scandals. this would just be deflection

          • Screwdriver

            If you talking about the total number in Ukraine , then I am ok with that. Small number.

          • slavko

            Yes indeed such a “small number” that Yanukovitch took his stolen money and ran away to Moscow and Putin responded to Ukrainian people’s rejection of his plan in complete paranoia, fearful that Maidan might come to Russia. You see Putin was nervous about that. That’s why he tightened up the laws making it illegal for anyone in Russia to criticize him. He tightened up the laws surrounding public assembly. And he tightened the noose around the necks of journalists in case they found their voices. This is why Putin had to make it a “patriotic” annexation and about “protecting” Russian speakers. But that wasn’t the case at all. Putin made a land grab out of fear. Fear of Ukraine becoming independent of Russian gas supplies. Fear of a Maidan on Red Square itself. And fear of losing power.

          • Screwdriver

            You aware that many Putin opponents in Russia still supported Crimea reunification, despite being the critics of the regime ?

          • MichaelA

            why is their opinion important?

          • slavko

            That may very well be, but like I said earlier… this is why he played the “patriotic” card and the “language” card… to bring on board the support of his critics in Russia. Putin made sh*t up because he knew he could get away with it since he controls the media. He couldn’t use the economy or the standard of living as a viable argument to garner support. So he went for the biggest myth of them all… the “purity” of Russia. There were photos of him going to church and praying, kissing Russian babies, statements from him how the white race needs protection, how the Russian language needs to be protected and then of course his words Crimea is Russia’s Jerusalem. Putin really is a piece of sh*t since he started a war in the name of patriotism, race, language and Jerusalem. Kind of reminds me of the reasons behind the Crusades… to save Jerusalem.

          • Screwdriver

            I do not really care about Putin, I care about those Ukrainians who did not go to Maidan , who did not accept Maidan, and all of those who suffered or killed in the result of this civil war.

          • slavko

            Your caring is too late Screwdriver. Everything was good until Putin got involved in Ukraine’s internal affairs. So go tell it to Putin how he fukked up. Just because Putin pulls out his dik doesn’t mean that Ukraine or anyone for that matter has to bow down in devoted servile obedience. Go tell your concerns to the aggressor not to the victim. The victim is only trying to defend its territory from a thief.

          • Screwdriver

            “Everything was good until Putin got involved ”
            And when exactly Putin got involved, on which date ?

          • slavko

            There for a moment I thought that it would be possible to carry on an intelligent exploration of the topic. But that’s not to be. Now you are not even close to an intelligence factor and have put yourself into the realm of Kremlin’s trolls that spew diversions. Ask Putin when he got involved if you need a date. Regardless, apparently everyone else but you is aware that Russia’s Tsar Tootin Poopin Puking Putin invaded and occupies Ukraine. And you defend the aggressor and the rapist!

          • Screwdriver

            You did not provide the date because you probably knew it would not look kosher. Problems, religious and cultural differences between Western Ukraine and SE Ukraine existed before Putin was born.
            Many foreign powers were involved in different civil wars. That was during Russian civil war , 100 years ago, in American civil war, Spain civil war, Yugoslavia, etc..etc etc you name it….But those were STILL civil wars!

          • slavko

            You are making sh*t up again. The majority of Ukrainians do not want to be part of Russia. In fact there were mass pro-unity with Ukraine demonstrations in the Donbas region. They were all peaceful. Then Russian thugs came and broke into Ukrainian armories. Stole weapons and started a fake civil war. The Russian thugs started beating up people that were pro-unity. Your FSB guy Strelkov admitted that he was sent into Donbas and fired the first shots.

            Ukrainians don’t give a dam about the diversity. They accept them. Diversity is a part of life. Ukrainians have lived under Polish and Russin oppression for hundreds of years, so they are very used to differences. Cultural differences are minimal. Religious differences are in title only. The masses are basically the same as are all the holidays.

            There is NOT a civil war in Ukraine. That is a Kremlin myth in attempt to hide the Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine that pretends to be a “civil war”.

          • Screwdriver

            Gee… We going circles. I never said that majority of Ukrainians want to be part of Russia.
            “there were mass pro-unity with Ukraine demonstrations in the Donbas region”
            I though we already passed that stage, not ? Then I would repeat:
            “two thirds of Maidan protest events occurred in the Western and Central regions outside of Kyiv. In the East and the South of Ukraine (without Donbass and Crimea), 8% of protests occurred in each region; in Donbass (3%) and Crimea (1%)”
            https://euromaidanberlin.wordpress.com/2014/07/29/the-real-face-of-maidan-statistics-from-protests-that-changed-the-country/
            And those numbers have very little to do with Putin and Strelkov, is that really difficult to understand ?

          • slavko

            The only circles are yours as you spiral into insanity. Just because people don’t come out and protest or demonstrate in favor of Maidan doesn’t mean that they want to split away either. There were many people that did not vote for Trump in the US, nor support him as president but that doesn’t mean they want to be split away from the US. In Ukraine the only desire for separatism came from Russia. And in the US, neither Canada or Mexico are staging a “civil war” in the US. And the US is not staging a “civil war” in either of it immediate neighbors. However, Russia IS staging “civil wars” among the neighbors.

          • Screwdriver

            “Just because people don’t come out and protest or demonstrate in favor of Maidan doesn’t mean that they want to split away either.” – Some yes, some not.
            Let me ask you a question.
            What you think..if Madrid would start to use airstrikes on Catalonia towns, – would it increase the number of separatists or decrease ?

          • slavko

            That is not a relevant question that you have posed. Spain did not use airstrikes since the nation of Spain was not being attacked by a foreign power.

            In Ukraine however the situation is very much different. A foreign power had invaded, occupied and infiltrated its ranks into Ukrainian regions of Luhansk and Donbas. This foreign power, Russia broke into Ukrainian armories and stole the stored Ukrainian weapons and used them to take over town halls and hoisted Russian made flags. Every country, every government has a right to protect its people and territory. Ukraine did that and stopped the invader in that tiny sliver that Russia now controls. The bulk of Donbas and Luhansk regions are against splitting away from Ukraine and they remain peaceful.

          • Screwdriver

            Yes, sure… Russia invaded Ukraine, but Kiev regime did not do airstrikes on Moscow, but at Lugansk civilians instead.
            And those air strikes and shelling turned Donbass locals even further away from “nen`ka”.

          • MichaelA

            Screwdriver couldn’t care less about the people of Ukraine, but he is very alert to defend any slur cast upon his messiah, Putin.

          • slavko

            I just don’t get it how a person can defend those such as Putin’s Russia that has continued its invasions of neighbors, staged faked civil wars all in the interest of expanding its sphere of influence by military means. However, Russia offers hardly nothing to the world at large in the field of medicine or humanitarian aid.

          • MichaelA

            so you dont know that either?
            typical uneducated russian

          • MichaelA

            so you admit that as well as all the people on the maidan in kyiv there were many protests elsewhere in the country as well
            thank you

          • MichaelA

            so you admit you have no idea

          • slavko

            He is only a spinner of Russian fables.

          • MichaelA

            and now you are trying to argue that more than half the people supported maidan before the russian invasion
            typical confused putin troll
            you dont like the fact that your dear fuehrers own stupidity turned ukrainians against russia

          • MichaelA

            and you deliberately misquoted the article because you knew it didnt support you
            typical
            the pro russian position on ukraine is always based on lies

          • MichaelA

            no you arent fine with his original statement because you deliberately misquoted it
            just another putin troll

        • MichaelA

          sorry but no thousands of troops switched sides
          nice try
          and yes public opinion turned against russia after it invaded and you know it
          that is why the attempted russian take over failed
          send in all the soft russian troops you like but it wont help

          • Screwdriver

            “Ukrainian Armed Forces’ Deputy Chief of the Main Command Center Major-General Oleksandr Rozmaznin briefed the Cabinet Ministers on the logistics of the withdrawal, including negotiations over whether the Ukrainian troops will be able to depart the now Russian-controlled region with their weapons.

            The withdrawal “will happen very soon,” Rozmaznin said. “Even if there are no weapons, the people are what matters. And the weapons will be taken from arms depots.”

            When asked how many Ukrainian troops had defected to the Russian Armed Forces, Rozmaznin responded: “About fifty percent.”
            https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/03/24/Ukraine-negotiating-troop-withdrawal-from-Crimea/5181395677491/

          • MichaelA

            But they didnt
            so where is your argument now?
            and yes public opinion turned against russia after it invaded and you know it
            that is why the attempted russian take over failed
            send in all the soft russian troops you like but it wont help

          • Screwdriver

            Bad try, read again, ten times :
            “When asked how many Ukrainian troops had defected to the Russian Armed Forces, Rozmaznin responded: “About fifty percent.”

          • MichaelA

            Bad try, read again, ten times:

            The issue you have raised is not what Rozmazin said, nor whether the journalist reported him accurately, but what actually happened. And there is no credible reason to think that thousands of Ukrainians defected. Some certainly did go to Russia willingly, particularly among those of general rank – higher ranks love corruption. Thousands did not return to Ukraine. But that is a different matter.

          • Screwdriver

            Looks like you did not read ten times, only nine.
            It does not say that “the journalist reported him”. – it is the other way around – he reported it , read 15 times : “When asked how many Ukrainian troops had defected to the Russian Armed Forces, Rozmaznin responded: “About fifty percent.”
            And in a very short time over 6 thousand former Ukrainian military already received Russian citizenship, as it was reported by Ukrainian sources l “всего по состоянию на конец апреля российское гражданство получили более 6 тысяч военнослужащих ВМСУ.”
            http://dumskaya.net/news/voennyj-prokuror-odesskogo-garnizona-otkryl-ugol-040873/

          • slavko

            You have to admit that Russia purposefully infiltrated Crimea with its own over the years. Some were within Ukrainian ranks. Ukrainians and Tatars are peaceful people and have lived peacefully with the Russian in Crimea regardless of the mutual history that includes Russian aggression. The logistics of uprooting a family and moving them into Ukraine for many was not a feasible option. Also Putin offered increased money for those Ukrainians that would switch sides. As usual people go to where they smell money. But it certainly is not because of any real allegiance to Russia. Many in the Ukrainian military stationed in Crimea made their choice to stay with Ukraine back when the USSR dissolved. Their choice was not coerced then as it was when Russia attacked Ukrainian military installations in 2014 Crimea.

          • Screwdriver

            “Russia purposefully infiltrated Crimea ”
            Yes, this was done as early as 17th century – saving Ukraine – Malorussia from centuries long invasions by Crimean Khanaat.

          • slavko

            You are taking things out of context. There was never a malorussia either. Pure figment of Putin and your imagination.

            Get real! We are not discussing 17th century. We are in the 21st century. Stay on topic and stop smoking that konoplya!

          • Screwdriver

            “You are taking things out of context” History of Crimea did not start in 21st century I hope, no ?
            “There was never a malorussia either” – Really ? :-)
            “Ukrainophile historians Mykhaylo Maksymovych, Nikolay Kostomarov, Dmytro Bahaliy, Volodymyr Antonovych acknowledged the fact that during Russo-Polish wars “Ukraine” had only a geographical meaning of borderlands of both states but “Little Russia” was an ethnic name of Little (Southern) Russian people”
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia

          • slavko

            Absolutely! Just because Russians gave the name doesn’t mean that Ukrainians accept that description. This is the whole concept behind self-determination. Russian point of view in political matters is actually just fascist bias. Ukrainians are finally shaking off that Russian yoke from centuries of being described through the Kremlin’s eyes. Now we know that Russia is truly a land of bullies whose point of view is one of weakness and a lack of confidence due to the actions of its leaders. There’s no greatness in pushing smaller nations around and in demeaning their language, culture and aspirations as Russia throughout history has done. And you too seem to relish in such trivial pursuits. You see Ukraine is the homeland and Russia is truly out there in some swampy borderland.

          • Screwdriver

            “doesn’t mean that Ukrainians accept that description”
            “уеду на дешевый хлеб в мою милую Малороссию” – Taras Shevchenko (Kobzar)

          • MichaelA

            thank you for admitting slavko’s point
            just because russians used the demeaning term malorossiya doesnt mean that ukrainians accepted it

          • Screwdriver

            “doesn’t mean that Ukrainians accept that description”
            And my favorite :
            “И мы, Богдан Хмельницкий, гетман войска Запорожского, и все войско Запорожское иному неверному царю служити не хочем; толко тебе, великому государю православному, бьем челом, чтоб твое царское величество не оставлял нас. Король полский со всею силою лятцкою идет на нас, погубити хотят веру православную, церкви святые, народ православной християнский из Малые сея Росии”

          • slavko

            Again you deflect to a time when the Russian overlord beat into his subjects only the description that he deemed correct and negated the humanity of Ukrainians. Even Shevchenko himself was forced by the Russian overlord to write his journals in Russian rather than in Ukrainian. They were inspected and they were written about a year before he was finally given his freedom. You know this. I brought this up to you once before. Look up Ems Ukaz… the decree by the Russian tsar that forbade the use of Ukrainian language. Although the Tsar called it the “malorussian dialect” …the fukking idiot. Just like the fukkin Putin! Now go smoke some more konoplya.

          • AmounRah

            “humanity of Ukrainians”
            Right Sector
            AZOV
            Tornado
            etc….

          • slavko

            So you think when Russia attacks, invades and annexes that people should just become willing victims?? Those groups that you listed beside the “etc” were only formed in response to Russian aggression. Every country has a right to defend itself and some groups are political in their effort and others are more militant in their self defense.

          • AmounRah

            First of all, Russia did not attack Ukraine. If it did, there would be no Ukraine. Full stop.
            Secondly, no, they weren’t.
            Right Sector existed way before the whole Maidan fiasco and participated n the killings there.
            And defend????…
            http://uacrisis.org/55087-need-know-case-former-tornado-battalion-servicemen

            That battalion was only caught because those guys were video taping them selves [email protected] underage Ukrainian girls and their mothers and threatening to kill the family if the children do not perform s**ual acts on the battalion members.

            AZOV was dropped from “supported” battalions by Canada and America after they found out that the battalion is openly neo-nazi and that they were trainign children.

            Right Sector……do I really need to talk about those degenerates???

            Stop justifying them

            And finally….
            “So you think when Russia attacks, invades and annexes that people should just become willing victims??”
            Seriously??? Alright. Then by the same logic, why can not Donbass resident defend them selves against the likes of Right Secot, AZOV and Tornado? Why can not they defend them selves against the government that it LITERALLY sh3lling their citizens into submission?? (as per my previous post, NATO confirming that Kiev was indeed using unguided missiles against civilians)? Why is it ok for the Right Sector junta to attack civilians, but when those civilians defend them selves, Kiev (ran by the same degenerates) calls them “terrorists”?
            So far, what we have on the ground are these facts:
            We know for sure that UA army and those battalions did, in fact, attack and pillage civilians. There is no denying it.
            We also have zero proof (OSCE and UN both said the same thing) that there are actual Russian troops in Ukraine, and *any*, and I mean ANY claims that Kiev has made has either been debunked, or never followed up on, or were left as “unconfirmed reports”. The same reports that UA gov’t as spinning as “facts”, when their *very own* army said that 99/100 reports they receive are fake. Then 9/10 of the reports they do follow up on, turn out false. Does Kiev government care? Nope. They spin and spin and spin whatever their Washingtonian masters tell them while Poroshenko is robbing the country, digging Ukrainians into a debt-hole and is selling UA socially owned factories and services (you know, the stuff that actually makes Ukraine money) to Americans, to pay for those loans. BUT HEY! It’s all Russia’s fault. It’s all Russias fault that the junta-elected ex-US informant, magically turned president, lied to the people, it is Russias fault that gov’t backed battalions like Tornado are terrorizing civilians, it is Russias fault that Ukraine is now owned by IMF, Russia, Russia, Russia, Putin, Putin, Putin.

            Time to wake up man.

          • slavko

            What you have posted here is nothing more than Kremlin Krap. And you are attempting to flip the title of invader onto Ukraine. The likes of you that continue in the face of truth to spew such nonsense is beyond despicable. There are photos of tank tracks from Russia into Ukraine. There are captured weapons by Ukraine of exclusively Russian weaponry. Ukraine never possessed such before. Ukraine has captured Russian military personnel on her territory. By all definitions this IS a Russian invasion and agression. Russia scuttled Ukrainian Navy ships in Crimea. Russia forced itself into Ukrainian military installations in Crimea. All that constitutes an act of invasion by a foreign power.

          • AmounRah

            “Ukraine never possessed such before.”
            You do realize that there are 5 oligarch armies, as well as other suppliers, who are hauling and selling weapons in and to Ukraine…..right?

            “UN/OSCE says no proof of troops”
            slavko: Kremlin krap!

            “AZOV is no longer sponsored by America and Canada since coming out as openly [email protected]
            salvko: Kremlin krap!

            “Tornado, pro-Ukrainian-government battalion, caught [email protected] underage Ukrainian girls and video taping it while threatning to kill the families if they do not watch and are under prosecution”
            slavko: Kremlin krap!

            “NATO confirms that Kiev has been sh3lling civilians with unguided missiles”
            slavko: Kremlin krap!

            This, ladies and gentlemen, is *THE* definition of either a brainwashed nationalist, or blind on a religions-level fanatic.

          • slavko

            Again you deflect from the reality that Russia invaded a neighboring country!

          • AmounRah

            Ok I am sticking with fanatic.
            If you omit EVERYTHING that is written and can not think of anything other than a made up Russian invasion…then I can’t help you.
            Good luck slavko………and good luck to Ukraine…

          • MichaelA

            of course it is your favourite
            that sums up why ukrainians have rejected racist and imperialistic russians
            and why they are cutting all ties with russia

          • slavko

            So says a Russian whose history only starts in the swamps of Moscow.
            And I never said that Crimean history starts in the 21st century dude! And you know this. You are deflecting away from the CURRENT history of the 21st century by introducing ancient history that has nothing to do with the fact that TODAY Russia is an invasive rat infested empire that only sucks the life out of the people it subjugates.

          • MichaelA

            of course he knows it
            screwdriver never attempts to deal in facts and rational argument
            all he does is try to deflect

          • slavko

            Exactly right. The core issue has been presented and the likes of Screwdriver ignores the core issue and continuously attempts to steer the dialog to that which has absolutely nothing to do with the CORE and CURRENT issue.

          • MichaelA

            not at all
            ukraine long predates russia
            just as russian culture and language derive from ukrainian

          • MichaelA

            no it wasnt
            russia was a tatar state
            and it infiltrated crimea in recent years because russia is a thief that tries to take what does not belong to it
            and then it cries because only other rogue states like north korea recognise its theft
            russia owns crimea in the same way that hitler owned norway in 1942 – only until it is forced out

          • MichaelA

            looks like you did not read ten times, only nine
            when i tell you to read ten times make sure you obey
            otherwise you will only humiliate yourself
            there is no credible reason to think that thousands of Ukrainians defected
            some certainly did go to Russia willingly, particularly among those of general rank – higher ranks love corruption
            thousands did not return to ukraine and had russian citizenship given to them which they did not ask for
            they were not allowed to return to ukraine
            and they did not defect

          • MichaelA

            and yes public opinion turned against russia after it invaded and you know it
            that is why the attempted russian take over failed
            send in all the soft russian troops you like but it wont help

        • AmounRah

          Bet you anything Kiev will do anything they can do ban the documentary;
          They already freaked out when France aired one.

      • MichaelA

        screwdriver doesnt like to post complete sentences
        otherwise the truth might come out

        • slavko

          Still I will give him credit for his civility. There used to be a Sergei Green that would insert his own words into a quote that made it look like a real quote from a respectful political figure. I haven’t seen screwdriver doing that.

      • AmounRah

        “Feelings began to change only after the beginning of the war”
        “but after Russia invaded Ukraine”
        Yeah…
        I believe the saying is: repeat the lies until they become the truth?
        Fake passports of Russian soldiers, pictures of Russian tanks that Kiev presented to NATO as “undeniable proof” but were actually taken in 2008, etc

        No offense to Ukraine or Ukrainians, but had Russia invaded, there would be Russian flags flying in Kiev on like day 3. But hey, it is easy for Kiev to lie, like with the picture, and make up whatever story they wanted to sway the public. No invasion? Let’s make one up!

        • slavko

          Well you have your Russian fairy tales and the Ukrainians have the facts. There are many tracks that lead from Russian into Ukraine. Those are in satellite photos. Russian invasion of Crimea and annexation after fake referendum is a fact as well . That is evidenced by Russian FSB colonel that claimed rounding up Crimean Parliament and forcing them to run a referendum in Moscow’s favor. He also claimed firing the first shots in Donbas. Those are words spoken by a Russian sent into Crimea by the Kremlin.
          What you say is pure BS. Now get lost!

          • AmounRah

            Dude,
            Do you speak just for the sake of speaking?
            Fake 2008 pictures presented by kiev: Fact
            Fake passports: fact
            Crimea left and is happy with Russia: Fact
            https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#1ad7cdb8510d

            What you have if *actual* fairly tale, and can not get over the propaganda that was forced down your throat and can not admit the fact that you were lied and to were used.

            However, you are entitled to your opinion, but the world will not wait and move on without you.
            Speaking of which
            Saw the recent Italian documentary on Maidan? What about the French one?

            Time to wake up buddy

          • slavko

            You have not disputed anything that i wrote and only injected dubious opinions by a writer whose specialty is more so financial markets. It is also a fact that the opinion piece you link to, offers not one justification for his “poll after poll shows that the locals there…” statement. The author has not substantiated anything and that’s why it’s only an opinion piece.

          • AmounRah

            “You have not disputed anything that i wrote and only injected dubious opinions by a writer whose specialty is more so financial markets. It is also a fact that the opinion piece you link to, offers not one justification for his “poll after poll shows that the locals there…” statement. The author has not substantiated anything and that’s why it’s only an opinion piece.”
            …………………………….wow
            How….predictable.
            If you guys can not accept the fact, then you consistently try to discredit the poster.
            Here, let me help you out finding facts in his “only opinion of someone who specializes in financial markets” article:
            The link to GULLOP poll, not even 1 page down, 4th paragraph:
            https://www.bbg.gov/wp-content/media/2014/06/Ukraine-slide-deck.pdf
            GFK poll (Link no longer works)
            http://www.gfk.com/ua/Documents/Presentations/GFK_report_FreeCrimea.pdf

            “The other fact is that opinions by residents under occupation can hardly be considered as credible.”
            Oh god. Stop looking for justification! It’s not even worth an eye-roll.

            By the SAME logic, I can say “Ukrainians who agree with the Kiev junta and are nationalistic, are only nationalistic because they are occupied by that junta and are under their pressure.
            Logic is a two-way street and does not bend one way for justification (that is a very Washingtonian thing to do )

          • slavko

            Your logic is handicapped as you defend the rapist and continue to attack the victim. The only deserving of an eye roll here is you.

            I read that poll that you brought up and I stand behind my statement: “The other fact is that opinions by residents under occupation can hardly be considered as credible.” for the only reason that such opinions are coerced by the threat of the use of force. That is the known Russian way… intimidation!!

          • AmounRah

            “I read that poll that you brought up and I stand behind my statement: “The other fact is that opinions by residents under occupation can hardly be considered as credible”

            Uh huh.
            Ok.
            Then we both shall agree that the rest of Ukraine, that is under control of aggressive and violent Kiev junta, does not ACTUALLY agree with them and whatever they say, including the media, is not credible.

            Agreed?
            Because so far you are applying that way of thinking only to justify your point and are not at all being objective.

          • slavko

            Fact for you: UN General Assembly Resolution 68/262 was passed in March of 2014 stating that Russian annexation of Crimea is illegal.

            ANOTHER FACT: UN General Assembly Resolution passed in December 2016 titled “Situation of Human Rights in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the City of Sevastopol” and called on Russia to bring an immediate stop to all human rights abuses in Crimea, “…in particular reported discriminatory measures and practices, arbitrary detentions, torture and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment, and to revoke all discriminatory legislation.”

            These are facts and what you say is NOT FACT but a distorted perception of reality by a paranoid personality. And the numero uno of distorted paranoid personalities is your Poopin Putin. He had ZERO business in attacking Ukraine like he did. His own FSB officer admitted encouraging separatism and firing 1st shots in Donbas. He also admitted to rounding up Crimean Parliament and forcing them to hold the “referendum” They were forced against their wishes. He admitted that. The Crimean Parliament at that time represented the people of Crimea. Russia forced itself upon Ukraine. THAT is considered an invasion.

          • AmounRah

            “Fact for you: UN General Assembly Resolution 68/262 was passed in March of 2014 stating that Russian annexation of Crimea is illegal.”
            Ohhh wow
            That’s it right there. UN (ran by US) has consluded Crimean annexation is illegal!

            And what about the people of Crimea?
            You know, not the ones who are sitting in offices, or in other countries. What about people who actually LIVE there and whose lives will depend on their choice?

            Isn’t that what Maidan was all about? Breaking away from the power you do not want to be ruled by? lol
            Let me know what you think:
            forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/

          • slavko

            Chechnya declared independence from Russia. Russia bombed the sh*t out of Chechnya and totally leveled Grozny? And that was OK?

            In Crimea, the Crimean Parliament was rounded up by Russian thugs and forced to hold a referendum. There’s a big difference.

            The link you posted is merely an opinion piece written by someone whose specialty is only investments in emerging markets. Chances are very good he only wrote that to protect his investments in Russia!

          • AmounRah

            “The link you posted is merely an opinion piece written by someone whose specialty is only investments in emerging markets”
            You do realize that all he is doing is quoting statistics from an official poll by independent and internationally recognized organizations, right?
            Or are facts “opinions” to you now because they do not support your belief system?

          • slavko

            These “facts” of yours have not been arrived at scientifically. People being polled while under occupation reinforces that. It is also a known fact that many Ukrainians and Tatars left Crimea after Russian occupation. It is also a known fact that Russia imported many Russins into Crimea. These are facts. So any “opinion poll” after the fact is just BS because it was not arrived at in the proper way. There were not even international observers during the vote and probably not even during this poll that you post. So to any intelligent observer and reader this article that you posted is only focused on protecting the writer’s investments in Russia. Very one-sided. But tha’s why it’s called an opinion piece.

            Good day!

          • AmounRah

            “These “facts” of yours have not been arrived at scientifically.”
            According to……………………………………….who?….slavko?

            Jesus, you trolls will grasp at anything.
            Next its going to be: they used the wrong type of paper~!!
            or: the weather was not perfect so the people were not thinking straight!

            GULLOP and GFK are both international and recognized organizations, who have been around a while and all other countries do not seem to have a problem with their surveys.
            Soooooooo…yeah…I would think that a recognized international organizations’ poll is scientific.
            It’s kind of fascinating to watch that because you hate Russia, you will believe annnnnnnnnnnyyyything that has a wrapper that says “anti-Russia stuff inside!”, no matter how disconnected from reality. But as soon as something factual comes out that does not fit your belief system, you look for anything possible and bend and twist anything you can JUST to justify why you don’t agree with it.
            This tells me one thing: you are emotionally invested in this. And a person like that can not discuss anything…and…clearly can not reason. So yes, continue believing that it was raining during the days of the survey, that Putin was there personally making every single person answer how he wanted to, that there are Russian tanks in Ukraine that no one has seen yet for years that this has been going on. Keep believing whatever you want to believe while Poroshenko and his bosses are robbing your country.

            Good day, indeed.

          • slavko

            I do not hate Russia at all. But I do abhor the Putin’s Kremlin which approved Russian invasion and annexation of neighboring lands. Russian imperialism is very evident these days. There’s no way of hiding that. Hitler used the same arguments that Putin uses.

            There’s no twisting of facts by me when I write that Russia imported more Russians into Crimea while Ukrainians and Tatars left after Russian occupation of the peninsula in 2013. Ukrainians and Tatars have lived peacefully together in the 20th and 21st century even that they are Christian and Muslims. But when the Russian Kremlin gets involved then all hell breaks loose. And Stalin falsely claimed that Tatars were traitors right after WWII. He deported them. It was not until Ukraine became independent of the USSR that Tatars were allowed to come back to their homeland of Southern Ukraine and Crimea. Ukraine and Crimea belong together. The Putin’s Kremlin is a cancer that needs to be surgically removed to provide the proper balance in the world.

          • AmounRah

            Thank you for the history lesson.
            “Ukraine and Crimea belong together”
            Now what Crimeans thought in the 90s. And not what Crimeans think today.

            The fact remains that the residents of an autonomous republic of Crimea, that has the right to make decisions, has made the decision to succeed (basically abandoning a sinking ship).
            Also, the fact that intentional and accredited and recognized organizations have surveyed the citizens 1.5 years after and the region is happy. Full stop.
            But hey, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from contacting both GULLOP and GFK to let them know that their methods and results are skewed. There is also nothing stopping you from going to Crimea and starting a demonstration with the exact same arguments and telling Crimeans that they “belong” with Ukraine.

            Foaming at the mouth parroting what western MSM is trying to push will result only in that….parroting while foaming at the mouth.

          • slavko

            You are truly being ridiculous. No one is foaming at the mouth. What you fail to understand, perhaps it’s your IQ level, don’t know… is that the demographics changed in the 1 1/2 years since Russia forced the annexation of Crimea. And so any survey or poll would certainly be skewed from the original circumstances prior to Russia forcing itself as the prevailing force in Crimea. That is not too hard to understand for anyone that is honest. But of course you are trying to skew things into the Kremlin story line just as the Kremlin’s own Strelkov admitted to forcing the Crimean Parliament to holding a referendum that met the Kremlin’s plan.

          • Geralt von RIva
          • Geralt von RIva

            An ex-president on the roof
            The Ukrainian madhouse

            By Wolfram Neidhard

            It’s like a robber’s pistol: a former head of state flees from security forces on a roof, threatens suicide, is arrested and then released from a prisoner van. What’s up in Kiev?

            These are wild scenes that take place in Kiev. Mikhail Saakashvili, who was Georgian leader from 2004 to 2013, opposes his arrest. He even threatens to fall from the roof of his house – it is a situation like in a madhouse. After units of the Ukrainian intelligence service SBU brought Saakashvili to a prisoner van, his supporters release him again. The state power surrenders – for the time being.

            It is a rift between two political heavyweights that shakes the Ukrainian state. President Petro Poroshenko and Saakashvili are fighting for power. It looks very much as if the former Soviet republic is again facing troubled weeks and months. A tent camp has been standing in Kiev for some time now, barricades are being erected. In front of the parliament building, thousands of Saakashvili supporters demand Poroshenko’s impeachment.

            There is a seething bubble in the Ukraine again: thousands of people are taking to the streets to protest against corruption and reform. Memories of the Euromaidan almost exactly four years ago come to life. At that time, the protests had swept the pro-Russian kleptomaniac Viktor Yanukovych in office. The “Chocolate King” Poroshenko was then considered the great bearer of hope to lead the Ukraine in a better time. A fallacy, as it turns out now.

            It has improved virtually nothing in Ukraine. The country has gone through a lot in recent years. In addition to the political turmoil in Kiev, the Crimea lost to Russia and the industrial East to the pro-Russian separatists. Around 10,000 people were killed, and there is no end in sight to dying.

            Another big problem that has already led to the Maidan protests is the rampant corruption in Ukraine. This had “weakened our army and made the country an easy prey to Russia,” said MP Sergei Leshchenko, member of the anti-corruption committee, the “Time”: “Corruption has shattered the national currency and deprived millions of their social security and jobs That forces us to fight for an honest policy in Ukraine every day. ”

            Shops in the Verkhovna Rada

            The EU Commission in Brussels is also extremely dissatisfied with the state of the fight against corruption. Recently, it stopped the payment of a grant of 600 million euros to Ukraine. The country has not made enough progress on required reforms, it was said. As early as March of this year, the Commission called on the Kiev government to focus on combating corruption, reforming the energy sector, reducing barriers to trade and supplying refugees from eastern Ukraine. Much has not happened since the appeal, yet flowed since 2015 1.2 billion euros from Brussels to Kiev.

            EU membership of Ukraine is also a long way off. The politically agile Poroshenko – he was under the pro-Western President Viktor Yushchenko Foreign Minister and under Yanukovich Minister of Economic Affairs – it is also in no hurry to fight corruption. It has stalled under the president, who also belongs to the Ukrainian oligarchy caste.

            The Parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, is a place where business is done. Sometimes he hears how business issues are discussed in the Chamber, according to the deputy Leshchenko. It is said in Kiev that meetings in the Rada often lasted until the early morning hours to seal deals. It does not matter whether the deputies come from the governing coalition or the opposition. Business is business, political boundaries are disappearing.

            The Georgian hothead

            Saakashvili has already learned that it is difficult to arrive at the conflation of politics and business, which leads to corruption. Taken by Poroshenko as governor of the Odessa region in 2015, he was only a little more than a year in the post. He wanted to liberate the Ukraine from the “corrupt pack”, he announced at that time. Saakashvili quickly reached his limits, the power apparatus refused him any support. Saakashvili lost the power struggle against Odessa’s mayor Gennady Truchanov, who put the authorities, the economy and the security forces against Saakashvili in position. From Poroshenko came no support, the Kyiv ruler even dropped his longtime friend and in turn went to counterattack. When Saakashvili was in the US in the summer, he was deprived of Ukrainian citizenship.

            Saakashvili is a hothead inclined to political adventurism. He wanted to get Georgia into NATO with all his might. Almost ten years ago, Saakashvili was at war with overwhelming Russia to seize the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia under Georgian control. Russian President Vladimir Putin had his troops marched into Georgia, after just five days had Saakashvili back down.

            He also fought corruption in his country – but sometimes shot over the target. Many Georgians believe that their head of state was responsible for, among other things, torture in prisons and arbitrary expropriations. Others said that Saakashvili had contained corruption. Indeed, during his term in the corruption index, Georgia rose from rank 131 to 55. However, Saakashvili, after leaving office, became involved with the Georgian Attorney General, who also investigated him for personal misconduct and ordered him to remand his custody. He emigrated to the United States.

            “Dictatorship of the middle class”

            Now Saakashvili is uncompromising in Ukraine. He even ignored an entry ban in September and crossed the Polish-Ukrainian border at Schehyni without valid papers. He now faces five years imprisonment for “Aid for a criminal organization”, he is – so the allegation of the prosecutor – have financed with the money from the environment of ex-President Yanukovich anti-government protests. After Saakashvili’s supporters prevented his arrest with their spectacular action, he wants to continue the fight against Poroshenko.

            Poroshenko was “completely crazy” and was afraid “that I would be politically dangerous,” says Saakashvili. He is undoubtedly right. Now he demands for Ukraine a “dictatorship of the middle class”. However, the people in Europe’s second-largest country have enough of dictatorships.

            A man will follow the events in Kiev with great interest and a certain satisfaction. It is Poroshenko and Saakashvili’s common opponent Vladimir Putin.

            https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Das-ukrainische-Tollhaus-article20169779.html

          • slavko

            I think that Poroshenko’s time as Prez is coming to an end. Saakashvilli is the 2nd politician to resign claiming that Poroshenko’s government isn’t providing enough support to fight corruption. This provides leverage then to their common opponent – Putin. But I’m not totally convinced that Putin is a mutual opponent to the both of them. That whole barnyard of Eastern Europe is so filthy with corruption encouraged by Moscow over decades. Look how Russia has been cheating at the Olympics and encouraged by the Kremlin.

            I’m curious Geralt… what do you think?

          • Geralt von RIva

            i think poro tried to balance the ukraine. he is not a total western orientated. during the maidan some russian or russian ukrainian wrote they would accept him as president. our friend in ukraine said in the beginning he is the best president ukraine ever had. until these scandals with the panama papers happened. the other friend wants tymoschenko.
            saakas reminds me to much to hitlers beerhall putsch, an austrian marching to munich and so on.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

            i would simple do normal elections and imprison saakas. but i fear, because winter is coming they will make a new maidan (and we cant do anything because merkel has actually only managerial responsibility, no real chancellor^^).

          • slavko

            Why imprison Saakshvilli?? I agree with you on the rest, mainly Poroshenko should just be voted out on the next round if people don’t want him. Saakashvilli should have his day in court. He was stripped of his citizenship one year after he resigned without any notice and while he was visiting family in US. And no one but Poroshenko knows why Poroshenko stripped him of citizenship. There’s a lot of funny politics going on… everywhere!

          • Geralt von RIva

            “Why imprison Saakshvilli??”
            i think the stripping of was somehow juristical ok without knowing the details^^. if course with court. but knowing these east europeans i would assume that the trial will be after the elections^^

          • slavko

            I think that stripping a person of their citizenship may have been illegal.

          • Geralt von RIva

            but giving him citizenship and take him into the gov was ok?^^
            similar the made adolf a german. he was stateless before it.
            time for ukraine to vote their own gov and not some “heros” from other countries.

          • slavko

            I agree with you here. But still a person needs to belong somewhere. And a person needs a passport to travel. He gave up his Georgian citizenship in order to fulfill Poroshenko’s request that he become governor of Odesa. And so in exchange Saaksh was given Ukrainian citizenship. Then it was pulled away without reasons. I personally don’t care to have him run for office in Ukraine, but if the laws permit, then he’s within his right. In US, only a US born can be President.

          • Geralt von RIva

            we live in interesting times.^^

            “SPD. Schulz wants United States of Europe by 2025
            At the beginning of the congress, the SPD leader is combative. He wants an EU constitution within a few years – and dismiss those EU states that do not participate.”

          • slavko

            Does he say where the “Euro White House” will be built? If it goes as the EU has been going, it seems destined for doom. The other thing is as long as there’s an exit available then there’s no commitment to make it work. Authoritarian way won’t work since it’s corrupt from the beginning and the same with democracy… not only does it become mired with self interest groups (which is corruption) but it becomes unwieldy and slow since everybody wants to talk, talk, talk, and then have coffee and cake to talk some more.

          • Geralt von RIva

            he is social democrat. they are always pan european and he now wants to jump onto the train en marche (current gov in france) started. its just to get some support from his party members because he lost the elections. merkel said already he is telling nonsense.^^
            france wants an eropean finance and economic minister. but this just end like we will pay and france will use it.^^

          • AmounRah

            Oh yes. Please. Insult my level of intelligence, especially the IQ comment. OH! do not forget to take apart my grammar and my spelling too!
            Anything to discredit the poster if he or she is posting facts that challenge your belief system.
            Look up “communication bubble”
            That is the phenomenon you are experiencing right now.

            As for ” is that the demographics changed in the 1 1/2 years since Russia forced the annexation of Crimea” Link to the official statistic please :) Would like to know exactly how many Russians Russia “imported”.
            And #2 (if you have time <3 ) How do you explain Crimea trying to break away in the 90s :)

            Will wait for your wisdom-filled replies!

            xoxo
            Thinking, objective and normal human being.

          • slavko

            I did not notice a level of intelligence in your comments. All that you have to say is pure deflection from the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine, forced an illegal referendum, created a fake civil war under phony pretenses that in fact was started by a Russian FSB official. You repeat Kremlin based lies just as Russia has been lying all these years insofar as the certification of their Olympic athletes. The level of cheating, misinformation, lying and malevolent intent goes right to the top of the Russian government. No wonder they were banned from the 2018 Olympics. How can anything be trusted coming out from Russia given that Russia is willing to cheat even at sporting events?

            Hence my statements stand.

          • AmounRah

            “I did not notice a level of intelligence in your comments.”
            Of course you didn’t 😉

            I skimmed through your post, but did not find any answers to my question.
            I mean this is a great opportunity to dismantle the surveys and shut me up.


            Here, I am going to copy paste it in case you missed it the first time:
            As for ” is that the demographics changed in the 1 1/2 years since Russia forced the annexation of Crimea” Link to the official statistic please :) Would like to know exactly how many Russians Russia “imported”.
            And #2 (if you have time <3 ) How do you explain Crimea trying to break away in the 90s :)

            Ill wait
            Thanks

          • slavko

            “OH! do not forget to take apart my grammar and my spelling too!”

            What on earth are you babbling about?? I have not mentioned anything about your grammar or spelling. Again you are deflecting form the core issue… Russia needs to get out of Ukraine. THAT would be the best. No one died and made Russia the god. Russia can’t even take care of itself. It even cheats as a matter of state policy at Olympic sports. It makes up lies about the neighbors to just give it a reason to invade. Hitler played the same game too. No wonder the Russia has a fascist and naazi approach to politics and international affairs. Let’s face it, Russia under Putin has become a loser country.

          • AmounRah

            Great!
            Thank you!
            Wow. I did not get that you hate Russia and Putin from the first 10 *identical* posts you have written.

            “What on earth are you babbling about?? I have not mentioned anything about your grammar or spelling”
            Quick question (and this is not meant as an insult) language is not your first language, is it?

            Let’s try this >>>>AGAIN<<<< this is the 4th time
            You have said " is that the demographics changed in the 1 1/2 years since Russia forced the annexation of Crimea"
            —-Link to the official statistic please :) Would like to know exactly how many Russians Russia "imported".
            —-And #2 (if you have time and the ability <3 ) How do you explain Crimea trying to break away in the 90s :)"

            If you just made that up and said it for the sake of saying it, then just admit it.
            Stop being a (bear with em I had to translate it) "змія на сковороді" (supposed to say snake on a pan) and answer the question to a claim that you have made.
            I am not interested in anything else you have to say….no, repeat, at this point.

          • slavko

            Crimea did not want to break away in the 1990’s but wanted greater autonomy and that’s what they got. Crimea used to be an autonomous republic, but that status was taken away by Russia right after after WWII. When USSR went bye bye (like you should) Crimea wanted to have it’s autonomy back and that was granted. Extensive autonomy was granted to Crimea. Today after Russian annexation that autonomy was removed just like it was removed in1946 before by Russia. And so I highly doubt that Crimeans are very happy by being downgraded in their autonomy. They certainly showed that displeasure a couple years ago.

            Russian census in 2014 showed a decline of Ukrainians and Crimean Tatar populations and showed an increase of the Russian population. The 2014 census also showed a decline in Belarus and Jewish populations. The greatest increase within the population was found among the Russians.

            This information is really available on the net if you had chosen to look. Now go away. You have nothing constructive to say.

          • AmounRah

            so you CAN answer questions. GREAT! :)
            (that was just a test btw)

            Now the REAL meaty stuff.

            5th time asking:
            Please post a link, or at least a source to prove your claim that Crimean demographic was changed since annexiation and that it has affected the survey, hence skewing the numbers and approval ratings.
            I will also accept that you are unable or unwilling as an answer.

          • slavko

            Since you think that you are so wise.. do your own research! It’s all on the web. There are news articles about human right violations in Crimea since Russia annexed. Warnings from the UN to Russia about that too. Articles about people never returning to their families when Russian bandits were terrorizing civilians in Crimea prior to the referendum. Census numbers are there as well. It’s also on record that Crimea was autonomous under Ukrainian constitution. Now under Russian occupation Crimea lost its autonomy. Tourists went away. Businesses closed up. Demographics have changed. And Russian military occupation has increased.

          • AmounRah

            “Since you think that you are so wise.. do your own research! It’s all on the web.”
            Oh god lol

            I accept your defeat.

          • slavko

            And I accept your laziness in research. Good day.

          • AmounRah

            Don’t even try, troll.

            Burden of proof falls on accuser. I am not going to dig through the internet trying to prove *your* made up B S. At least I had the guts to show you the link proving what I said. You can’t even do that.

            Troll somewhere else, troll.

          • slavko

            :)))

            And when a person stoops to insults, the battle has been lost!! 😉

            Good day!

          • AmounRah

            slavko,
            You definitely win. It was a hard battle, but you have definitely, 100%, without a doubt won. You have done an amazing job constructing and backing up your arguments, I even didn’t have anything that I could challenge you with. Oh man.
            You are definitely the better person. You just shut me up with your facts and proof that you have provided…there was nothing I could do…

          • slavko

            Wonderful! I see that you have finally come to your senses and did the research to see in fact for yourself instead of just taking my word for things or accepting some links that i post. :))

            Good job! 😉

          • AmounRah

            God help Ukraine…….

          • slavko

            Slava Ukraini!

          • AmounRah

            Ukraine needs help, not chanting.

          • slavko

            so stop your brainless chanting!!

          • zorbatheturk

            Interesting that the Boston bombers were Chechen/Dagestani. In other words, RuSSian citizens, before they arrived in the States to claim refugee status. Sure, they lived in Kyrgyzstan for a few years, but their father was a Chechen and their mother from Dagestan.

          • slavko

            Chechens were blamed for the assassination of Nemtsov, Putin’s biggest threat in the Russian opposition and who was very much pro-Ukraine. And as I remember reading back then most interesting that the assassination was done right across from the Kremlin one of the most highly secure areas on the planet, yet it took 45 minutes to bring a cop to the scene while Nemtsov’s girlfriend was sobbing beside him.

          • zorbatheturk

            Chechens are hired hitmen.

        • MichaelA

          nice try
          russia did try to invade
          they first tried to raise an insurrection throughout eastern ukraine but the people did not support them
          then they tried direct invasion
          and they were stopped by volunteers with crap equipment
          no hope of russian flags flying in kyiv
          the russian army just isnt good enough

    • Mick Servian

      Hahaha
      Years later and you’re insecure culture still babbles on about maidan.
      Pathetic

  • zorbatheturk

    Stomp Soviet elements.

  • AmounRah

    “As a result of Maidan, we succeeded in replacing a foreign power that was very effective”
    LMAO!
    WHAT!?
    Ukraine traded someone who would work with them, for vassals of Washington who robbed the country BLIND within just 2 years.
    You did not “replace” any foreign powers, the most you did was trade them.