Supporting transparency or fighting it? New law on assets declarations for NGOs raises scandal in Ukraine

Anti-Corruption activists held a “sissy pants” rally in front of the Ukrainian parliament, urging MPs to adopt law on electronic declarations on 18 October 2016. Photo: nv.ua

Anti-Corruption activists held a “sissy pants” rally in front of the Ukrainian parliament, urging MPs to adopt law on electronic declarations on 18 October 2016. Photo: nv.ua 

Analysis & Opinion

Article by: Olena Makarenko

When the Euromaidan revolution in Ukraine won and the tyrant President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country in 2014, society hard work ahead – fighting the old corrupt oligarchic system and building a new Ukraine. Now this anti-corruption activity might endanger its initiators.

Some promising steps were made in the country to eliminate corruption and promote new transparent rules. Among them were introducing the ProZorro e-procurement system exposing state purchases and e-declarations for the state officials, and creating new anti-corruption institutions.

Ukraine’s old political establishment fought against new anti-corruption measures to the last breath. The launch of the e-declaration system was jeopardized and undermined countless times.

The adoption of new rules became possible because of the persistence of society – particularly, civic activists and NGOs. Now, these drivers of progress might face trouble themselves. The reason for that is a bill requiring anti-corruption NGOs to submit e-declarations aside government officials.

Read also: Behind the scenes of civic society’s battle with corruption in Ukraine

The key points of the bill

On March 27, President Petro Poroshenko signed the bill on Amendments to the Law of Ukraine on Prevention of Corruption. According to it, anti-corruption NGOs and their contractors, candidates for the positions of deputies of the Parliament of local councils, or the president, and civil activists who fight corruption should submit e-declarations on their property and income. The e-declarations are similar to those which the state officials submit, and those failing to submit them would face criminal responsibility. All the above-mentioned persons will be obliged to declare their property in 2018.

Introduced under a shield

The bill initiated from an initiative to exempt soldiers fighting in Eastern Ukraine from the declaration process, releasing the soldiers and sergeants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and cadets of the military schools from the obligation. Junior officers were allowed to do it when they come back to the bases or finished their service. Senior officers and military personnel who are at the front positions are still required to submit e-declarations. The bill had to be passed urgently before the first stage of the e-declarations ended on 31 March, so that soldiers on the front line would not end up violating the law.

The dubious provisions

Tetyana Chornovol, the initiator of amendments requiring anti-corruption activists to declare their assets. Photo: ednist.info

However, instead of being reduced, the list of people who should submit declarations was broadened. The main initiator of the relevant amendments is Tetiana Chornovol, an MP from the Narodnyi Front party, who claimed that the activities of anti-corruption NGOs carry corruption risks. However, the activists consider the step as a threat for the anti-corruption measures themselves.

One of the most ambiguous provisions of the law is one which obliges the individuals who take part or are involved in measures related to the prevention or countermeasures against corruption to submit e-declarations. The formulation leaves a lot of space for interpretations. Should a person who just attended an anti-corruption protest declare his property? Should those who support anti-corruption NGOs in other ways? The law does not define what constitutes an anti-corruption measure. Another dubious provision requires not only NGOs themselves to submit the e-declarations, but the entrepreneurs providing services to them.

For example, from the money from grants we pay rent for our office, the Internet, translations, and other basic services. Now our contractors will have to also submit declarations and they will be responsible for not providing them or for telling lies,” says Dariya Kaleniuk the CEO of the Anti Corruption Action Center.

Thus, the number of people who will be required to declare their assets expands, which gives additional opportunities to badger and pressure anti-corruption NGOs.

“I think this will lead to a situation when these civil activists will be under thorough investigation of the National Agency for Prevention of Corruption. Criminal proceedings will be opened against them. The measures which have to be applied against President, MPs and ministers who can not explain their assets or hide part of them will be applied to them [to the activists],” said Yehor Sobolev, an MP from the Samopomich party.

Independent media under threat

Investigative journalists might face troubles for their anti-corruption work too, like these graphics developed by Kyiv Post journalists who founded the NGO Media Development Foundation

The ambiguous law will also affect the activities of a number of independent media in Ukraine. The situation with media in the country is complicated, as an overwhelming majority of big Ukrainian media belong to oligarchs.

Read also: Ukraine makes progress in media freedom, but oligarchs still run the show

To be truly independent one should have money. The attempts to establish independent journalism in Ukraine are often supported by international donors, and many Ukrainian medias have the status of an NGO and function mostly thanks to donations and international grants. The medias include outlets which you probably have heard of.

First of all, Euromaidan Press is a media registered as an NGO.

In 2013, the journalists of the English-language newspaper Kyiv Post launched an affiliated nonprofit organization, the Media Development Foundation, to promote investigative journalism, student exchanges, and training programs. Last year the NGO initiated a project about Ukrainian oligarchs. One of the first people in the list was the most powerful oligarch in Ukraine, the President Petro Poroshenko.

Another Ukrainian media which you probably know, Hromadske, also functions thanks to grants from western organizations and donations of its readers. Last year, the media published an investigation conducted together with the OCCR specialists stating that Ukraine’s president has an offshore company. The quality of the investigation can be, and was, disputed. But the that begs being asked is: if similar investigations are considered an anti-corruption measure and its participants are required to submit e-declarations, would the president, his surrounding, or any other person targeted by an investigation try to pressure the journalists using this new legislation?

Among other NGOs working as medias there is Internews Ukraine, Ukrainian Crisis Media Center, Detektor Media, texty.org.ua, Hromadske Radio, the Center for Investigative Journalism and many others. Will these media be de facto punished for their anti-corruption investigations or even interviews and articles?

International community condemns

On the eve of possible introducing of the visa-free regime with the EU, Ukraine passed a law contradicting EU recommendations for the work of NGOs. Photo: eeas.europa.eu

President Poroshenko has already been criticized by the international community for signing the dubious law. Even before the legislation was passed, the initiative on introducing the amendments was not approved by the EU.

“Ukraine has achieved success with e-declarations! However, the bill #5318 contradicts this achievement, anti-corruption NGOs state ≠ officials,” tweeted the EU delegation to UA.

The recommendations of the council of Europe on the legal status of non-governmental organizations in Europe states that:

  • All reporting should be subject to a duty to respect the rights of donors, beneficiaries, and staff, as well as the right to protect legitimate business confidentiality.
  • No external intervention in the running of NGOs should take place unless a serious breach of the legal requirements applicable to NGOs has been established or is reasonably believed to be imminent.
  • The officers, directors, and staff of an NGO with legal personality should not be personally liable for its debts, liabilities and obligations.

The new legislation has also been criticized by Transparency International:

“These new provisions must be abolished immediately. Lawmakers are trying to intimidate civil society and in particular anti-corruption activists. If these amendments come into force, it will be clear that Ukrainian top officials are not serious about fighting corruption. It will show that they have chosen to side with those who want to quash the anti-corruption movement,” stated José Ugaz, Chair of Transparency International.

And by the Freedom House:

Ukraine’s passage of intrusive reporting requirements targeting anti-corruption activists and NGOs undermines their work, which is essential for restoring public trust in the government,” said Marc Behrendt, director of Eurasia programs at Freedom House. “The new requirements protect politicians unhappy with public scrutiny and allow them to retaliate against those involved in anti-corruption investigations. Moreover, the law appears to violate standards established by the Council of Europe, which prohibit arbitrary and discriminatory intrusion into independent civil society activity.”

However, the bill has been supported in Ukraine not only by the politicians who initiated it.

Public opinion and some arguments in favor

President Poroshenko discussed the new legislation with NGOs, but didn’t listen to their arguments against it. Photo: pravda.com.ua

In Ukraine, the new legislation is served under the sauce of high standards which fighters against corruption should meet to be allowed to fight it.

The impoverished society was irritated and angered by the staggering wealth of state officials that the first round of e-declarations revealed. Now any potentially rich person may fall victim to public anger and suspicion.

Read more: Ukraine’s elite-exposing e-declarations, explained | #UAreforms

Moreover, often there is no distinction between the declaration of assets and any other kinds of reports in the minds of ordinary Ukrainians. Many responded angrily: “Let them report on their wealth like all the state officials do,” despite there being an important difference between the two – state officials are funded by the money of taxpayers, and fall to corruption, while NGOs do not, and cannot be corrupt by definition.

Mykhailo Zhernakov, the leading expert on judiciary of the Reanimation Package of Reforms didn’t mince words – according to him, this law would “basically renew authoritarianism in Ukraine and turn Ukraine into a police state once again.”

Zhernakov notes that most of the members of anti-corruption NGOs already provide declarations as members of public councils at government organs, according to the requirements they themselves prescribed. However, now the activists may face criminal liability for the same declarations, which the “law enforcements” and courts dependent on politicians will be happy to apply to activists and investigative journalists.

He also admits that the new legislation probably will not tell anything new to society:

Grant projects have very high standards of accountability, and most reports are available on the websites of NGOs and international donors. The law does not impose any additional obligations on disclosure of origin nor the means, neither their use.”

The supporters of the legislation stick to the line that today’s fighters against corruption are future politicians so that they should be transparent from the very beginning of this path. However, these arguments befit the ideal world. In reality, the legislation will likely result in attacks on those who fight corruption in Ukraine.

The bill has already been compared to Russia’s recently passed legislation on “foreign agents” which placed restrictions on organizations which work in Russia with the support of international donors. Some experts fear that the bill is a symbol of the end of the Euromaidan era when the revolution from the streets entered Parliament in 2014, where so far it is losing.

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Edited by: Alya Shandra

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  • Tony

    “state officials are funded by the money of taxpayers, and fall to corruption, while NGOs do not, and cannot be corrupt by definition.”
    Excellent paragraph for defeating this nonsense.
    Also, there have been warnings that flooding the system with irrelevant declarations would reduce the systems effectiveness.

    • Andrew Chmile

      That is the entire point!
      It also seeks to PRETEND they are doing something.
      Obviously …

      Hmm….. on another note …
      You should go to the LYING polaks again & apologies again for being Ukrainian.
      Do you think that will make them hate Ukes less? :)
      Throw in an @ss lick or two … :) Maybe it will help you think? 😉

      Try it with the Russo-mongolians as well !!! :)))

    • Alex George

      Yes, which is no doubt what the Rada MPs want to achieve

      • Andrew Chmile

        SHUDD-UP you ***LYING*** Ruski ***MOLE** POS!!

        — go defend THE LOUD “TRUMP* SUPPORTERS & OTHER MOLES like “Mike” & “Vasyl P.” — & “Crimea is Russian & I lost my only baby in
        Donbas ‘Larissa’ BOO-HOO!!!” :))

        The BS artists on “Ukraine Today USA” & “The Trump Channel” — YOU ARE ALL SUCH STUPID POS! :)))

        Along with SERBIANS who PRETEND AT TIMES TO BE UKRAINIAN!!! (“MIKE”) :)))))

        RUSKI!!! ;)))

        • Alex George

          Hi Andrew, how’s the weather in St Petersburg? ;o)

          I see you don’t like me inferring that some Rada MPs are corrupt.

          So now I am really Mike as well as the other people you have identified me with! Which is interesting coming from someone like you who has to regularly change accounts, as you keep getting booted off pro-Ukrainian sites…

          • Andrew Chmile

            OH?

            PROVE IT!!!

            LIAR & RUSKI ***MOLE***

          • Alex George

            I don’t have to prove anything. Your own posts regularly demonstrate your dislike of Ukraine. You never have anything positive to say about her or her people and you often flame people whose support of Ukraine is well-known.

          • Andrew Chmile

            Like the TRUMP SUPPORTER & RUSSO-MONGOLIAN ***LIAR*** “Vasyl P.” ?? :)))

            STUPID RUSKI *faqqot* !!!! :)))

          • Alex George

            Vasyl P is one of about 30 people you regularly flame, on this and other sites, and who are genuine supporters of Ukraine. You also attempt to sow dissension among supporters of Ukraine wherever you get an opportunity.

            Hence why I wrote that your own posts regularly demonstrate your dislike of Ukraine. You never have anything positive to say about her or her people and you often flame people whose support of Ukraine is well-known.

          • Andrew Chmile

            2 Ruski **MOLE–TROLLS” & COWARDLY RUSKI THAT HIDE THEIR POSTINGS AND ARE PROVEN ***LIARS*** UP-VOTED YOU!!! :)))

            Ruski SCUM!!!!

            “P’tfu!!” — I spit in your monhol moron faces!!!

            You call LYING & BEING **MOLES** & TROLLING A “JOB” ??

            Only in your RUSKI RAT EATING SCUMBAG MONHOL COUNTRY! ;)))

          • Alex George

            You don’t spit in anyone’s face – you don’t have the courage to do that. You would just be arrested, and that frightens you.

            You accuse everyone who supports Ukraine of being “russki” – that is obviously the tactic of a Putin troll.

            Vasyl P is one of about 30 people you regularly flame, on this and other sites, and who are genuine supporters of Ukraine. You also attempt to sow dissension among supporters of Ukraine wherever you get an opportunity.

            Hence why I wrote that your own posts regularly demonstrate your dislike of Ukraine. You never have anything positive to say about her or her people and you often flame people whose support of Ukraine is well-known.

          • Andrew Chmile

            your & his LYING & post hiding are “well-known! —- SNEAKING RUSSIAN ***COWARD*** !!!!

            You have no balls ….. RUSSO-MONGOLIAN POS!!!

          • Vasyl P.

            I haven’t posted here in 2 weeks and you still talk about me. That’s cute :)

            Also I’m not a blind follower of Trump, I have disagreements with him :)

          • Andrew Chmile

            So does Putin, so what?

            You STILL ***HIDE** YOUR POSTINGS.
            & UP-VOTE OTHER SCUMBAG **MOLES**
            & YOU ARE SELF PROCLAIMED ***STUKACH*** (Russian communist, sneaking snitch),
            aren’t you now? :)

          • Alex George

            No he hasn’t proclaimed that. Neither has anybody else.

            Once again you show your true colours, by attacking people who support Ukraine.

  • Murf

    You know. if these Ketpocrats used as much creativity and drive to… I don’t know, actually make SOMETHING, there is no telling how rich they could be.
    Instead they spend endless effort to obstruct anything that may prevent them from doing EVERYTHING in the most halfed a$$ way humanly possible.
    I just don’t get it.

    • Andrew Chmile

      Time for some MASS RESIGNATIONS.

      Groysman (Hroysman) the fat Jew & Prime Minister & a buddy of Poroshenko, said that “..the oligarchs are an **ACHIEVEMENT** of the Ukrainian state. ” :)

      He’s a thief as well of course.

      Oligarchs (and THE RICH) were/are THIEVES & CHEATS …. stealing from the state after communism … which is why they were almost all commies… The billionaire Jew, Victor Pinchuk, who MARRIED former Ukr. President Kuchma’s daughter, of late has been writing in the Wall Street Journal that Ukr. should “compromise” with Russia.

      Put the VETERANS IN POWER!

    • Andrew Chmile

      Groysman (Hroysman) the fat
      Jew & Prime Minister & a buddy of oligarch Poroshenko, said that
      “..the oligarchs are an **ACHIEVEMENT** of the Ukrainian state. ” :)

      Groysman’s a thief as well of course.

      Oligarchs
      (and THE RICH in general in Ukraine) were/are THIEVES & CHEATS ….
      stealing from the state after communism, etc … which is why they were
      almost all commies…

      The billionaire Jew, Victor Pinchuk, who MARRIED former Ukr. President Kuchma’s daughter, has of late has been writing in the
      Wall Street Journal that Ukr. should “compromise” with Russia. :)

      • Alex George

        Why are the only oligarchs you mention the Jewish ones – and you take special care to emphasise that they are Jewish?

        Large numbers of Jewish people have put their lives on the line to defend Ukraine (and of course from many other ethnic and religious groups also)

        • Andrew Chmile

          NOT “large numbers”.

          YOU LIE!
          A few.

          YOU LIE AGAIN! PROVE IT!
          LYING ***MOLE** — go back up the other **MOLE** — RUSKI TRUMP SUPPORTERS some more!

          Did “Larissa” —- “lose her only baby” again? :)))
          Is Crimea “really Russian” as per her” 😉

          Faqqot! :)

          • Alex George

            Yes, large numbers of Jewish people have taken an active part in the defence of Ukraine. Actually quite a lot of muslims too, and a number of other ethnic minorities that you despise.

            But you took care to emphasise the Jewishness of two oligarchs because your anti-semitism is far more important than anything else, particularly the welfare of Ukraine.

          • Andrew Chmile

            GIVE THE NUMBER OF: “Yes, large numbers of Jewish people have taken an active part in the defence of Ukraine.”

            Some yes! GOOD FOR THEM, US!!!
            Bur NOT “Yes, large numbers of Jewish people have taken an active part in the defence of Ukraine.”

            PROVE IT YOU LYING POS monhol!

          • Alex George

            If you were familiar with events in Ukraine, you would already know this. And no, I don’t have to give “exact numbers”, particularly when you never give exact numbers for anything.

            You just cannot cope with the fact that Ukraine does not accept your racism and anti-semitism. There are large numbers of Jewish people in Ukraine who put their lives on the line for their country.

          • Andrew Chmile

            You wrote “LARGE NUMBERS” — didn’t you stupid? :)

            WTF is THAT “large number” :)))

            RUSKI MORON!!!! :)))

          • Alex George

            So now you admit you don’t even know what the expression “large numbers” means. Learn English.

            If you were familiar with events in Ukraine, you would already know this. And no, I don’t have to give “exact numbers”, particularly when you never give exact numbers for anything.

            You just cannot cope with the fact that Ukraine does not accept your racism and anti-semitism. There are large numbers of Jewish people in Ukraine who put their lives on the line for their country.

          • Turtler

            Define what you would call “large numbers” first, dear hack.

            And for that matter what “active part” can be.

            Then we’ll see. Without those definitions ironed out accusations of lying are pointless.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “Define what you would call “large numbers” first, dear hack.”

            STUPID moron!
            Don’t YOU “think” **YOU** should ask THE RUSKI **MOLE**
            “Alex George” to “Define what you would call “large numbers” first, dear hack.”

            GIVEN THAT “Alex George” was the entity that MADE THAT CLAIM—- RIGHT STUPID ???

            Moron…..

          • Turtler

            “STUPID moron!”

            That is certianly not a conventional definition of “large numbers.” But if it’s the one you want to go with, who am I to argue?

            “Don’t YOU “think” **YOU** should ask THE RUSKI **MOLE**”

            I will if it comes to that. But I want to know exactly how many Jews would need to be fighting and helping in your opinion to constitute “large numbers.”

            The fact that you use invective as a substitute for argument gives scant reason for us to trust you.

          • Andrew Chmile

            So you REALIZED you SCREWED-UP
            & now try to “cleverly” (SO YOU “THINK”:) write your way out of it., by WRITING A LOT, eh you faqqot? :))

            YOU RUSKI CRETIN!!! :)))

            MORON!!! :)))

          • Turtler

            “So you REALIZED you SCREWED-UP'”

            No, I didn’t.

            It is still perfectly valid for me to demand that you define what YOU think are “large numbers.” So that your claims can be measured against that.

            The fact that you’d rather me ask Alex George about it first doesn’t make it so.

            “& now try to “cleverly” (SO YOU “THINK”:) write your way out of it., by WRITING A LOT, eh you faqqot? :))”

            Better than the person who thinks yelling homophobic and racist slurs will get him out of a debate.

            “YOU RUSKI CRETIN!!! :)))”

            I’m not Russian. Troll.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “The fact that you’d rather me ask Alex George about it first doesn’t make it so.”

            Ruski faqqot was the one THAT MADE THAT CLAIM —- RIGHT STUPID ???

            :)
            You Ruski are such CRETINS!!!
            Communism for 72 years, eh??? :)))
            IDIOTS!!!!

            Wanna tell me how Ruski & Ukrainians “are the same people” you UNEDUCATED,
            BRAINWASHED monhol ANIMAL!!! :)

          • Turtler

            “Ruski faqqot was the one THAT MADE THAT CLAIM —- RIGHT STUPID ???”

            Except I don’t know or have any reason to believe that he is either Russian or homosexual.

            But yes, he was. However, you were the one to start the Jew ranting.

            “You Ruski are such CRETINS!!!”

            Says the troll who acts like a Cretin and cannot confront answers or challengers.

            By the way: what’s your full, real name? If you don’t give it, you’re a “GUTLESS faqqot” as you emphasized to me.

            “Wanna tell me how Ruski & Ukrainians “are the same people””

            No, because they’re not. Ultimately what determines who a people are are how they identify. And the Ukrainian people have claimed their existence by will and blood sacrifice over the span of more than 350 years of Russian attempts to erase them from existence.

            That’s longer than my own United States has existed.

          • Andrew Chmile

            Gave that & my FB page LOTS of times! :)

            How about you? 😉

          • Turtler

            “Gave that & my FB page LOTS of times! :)”

            But not this time. And unfortunately for you, I don’t really give a damn about those other “lots of times” you claim you did.

            You’re not getting anything more but my name until you give your full one.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “But not this time. And unfortunately for you, I don’t really give a damn about those other “lots of times” you claim you did.”

            BUT “unfortunately for you” — * i * do !!!

            idiot!!!

            You look more & more like the PRETENTIOUS **fool** you INDEED are ….
            wanna argue some more with me ’bout Ukr. history & how Stepan Bandera (PBUH) proclaimedx the Ukrainian State after the Germans came to liberate Ukraine from the Russo-mongolian Communists IN KHARKIV !!!! ???? :)))

            DOLT!!!

          • Turtler

            “BUT “unfortunately for you” — * i * do !!!”

            The fact that you do doesn’t change the fact that you giving a damn doesn’t change the matter.

            You demanded to know my name and called me a Gutless faqqot if I didn’t. Well, I did.

            Now you’re refusing to do what I did. So you’re the real gutless one, and you can’t wave that away by just saying “you give a damn” about something.

            “wanna argue some more with me ’bout Ukr. history & how Stepan Bandera (PBUH) proclaimedx the Ukrainian State after the Germans came to liberate Ukraine from the Russo-mongolian Communists IN KHARKIV !!!! ”

            Start by linking to where I wrote he did it In Kharkhiv.

            And secondly, no, the Germans never came to liberate Ukraine from anyone. That is why Hitler betrayed Bandera, threw him and his closest followers in concentration camps, and issued a declaration that the OUN be exterminated. He merely wanted to replace Soviet tyranny with his own.

            But I am not surprised a Naziphile will ignore that.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “It is still perfectly valid for me to demand that you define what YOU
            think are “large numbers.” So that your claims can be measured against
            that.”

            Aristotelian thought is clearly NOT your forte!

            * I * — was NOT the one making a CLAIM you CRETIN!!!

            Your fellow SCUMBAG made a CLAIM — REMEMBER?
            Burden of PROOF is therefore upon him/her…. YOU!!!

          • Turtler

            “Aristotelian thought is clearly NOT your forte!”

            I should take that as a compliment, because if you actually knew Aristotle (and Classical Greek Philosophy in general) you would realize Aristotelian thought can be quite valuable but has HIDEOUS blind spots and limitations.

            See: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-logic/

            “* I * — was NOT the one making a CLAIM you CRETIN!!!”

            By rejecting that claim and making this one:

            “NOT “large numbers”.

            YOU LIE!
            A few.”

            You made a claim of your own, in the form of a counter claim. And that means it is incumbent upon you to define how few is “a few” versus “many.”

            Get it?

          • Andrew Chmile

            “You made a claim of your own, in the form of a counter claim. And
            that means it is incumbent upon you to define how few is “a few” versus
            “many.” Get it?”

            YOU ARE A RUSSO-MONGOLIAN ***IDIOT*** !!!

          • Turtler

            Let me humor you and pretend, for one second, that I am. The very first Russo-Mongolian idiot with a Dutch surname and English first name.

            How would that change the fact that your counter claim is still a claim you have to support? It would not.

          • Andrew Chmile

            Hmm…. I see that LYING RUSKI **MOLE** keeps up-voting you.

            He gets you hot —- all that “up-voting” eh?

            Go rub his leg!! — He sits next to you in TROLL CENTRAL!!!

            Of course you “clever” monhols fool us! 😉

          • Turtler

            “Hmm…. I see that LYING RUSKI **MOLE** keeps up-voting you.”

            Not as big a liar as you, apparently.

            “He gets you hot —- all that “up-voting” eh?”

            Answer: No.

            Ohio after a Spring Rain in general kinda limits how hot you can get.

            “Go rub his leg!! — He sits next to you in TROLL CENTRAL!!!”

            No, he doesn’t.

            And in the odd chance I took leave of my senses and wanted to rub his leg, it would be impaired by the fact that I don’t know where he is. Certainly not in my city.

            “Of course you “clever” monhols fool us! ;)”

            No, you fool yourself.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “I should take that as a compliment, because if you actually knew
            Aristotle (and Classical Greek Philosophy in general) you would realize
            Aristotelian thought can be quite valuable but has HIDEOUS blind spots
            and limitations.”

            WoW!!!!
            You probably have to have another Russo-mongolian help you find your dik when you take a p*ss!!!

            MORON!!!! RUSKI !!!! — REALLY !!!!

            http://tinyurl.com/h3gmpem

          • Turtler

            So, you want to call me a moron because I understand formal logic (and how it has advanced since Plato) better than you. Cute,

            I note you have not bothered to explain how my linked source is Russo-Mongol.

            But of course, you don’t know you are stupid.

          • Andrew Chmile

            “I note you have not bothered to explain how my linked source is Russo-Mongol.”

            DID * I * EVER SAY/WRITE IT **WAS** ????

            YOU **IDIOT** !!!

            No wonder you don’t like ARISTOTELIAN LOGIC!!!

            BECAUSE YOU ARE A RUSKI TROLL ***MORON*** & faqqot!!! :))

            Just slide your hand over the leg of the Ruski troll next to you !!!

            DO IT! DO IT !!!!
            Those 12 hour shifts are long, eh ? 😉

          • Turtler

            “DID * I * EVER SAY/WRITE IT **WAS** ????”

            No, you merely condescended to me by claiming I personally was Russo-Mongol for what I wrote, without bothering to address the fact that I was not alone in writing it.

            “No wonder you don’t like ARISTOTELIAN LOGIC!!!”

            DID I EVER SAY I DISLIKED IT, MORON?

            I don’t. I just recognize its’ limitations, which are great and crippling. it may be a distant ancestor of modern formal logic, but it ain’t the same.

            “Just slide your hand over the leg of the Ruski troll next to you !!!”

            So now you’re calling my red-eared slider turtle Thomas a Russian Troll. Greaaaat.

            “Those 12 hour shifts are long, eh ? ;)”

            You should tell me. You seem to be the one with more evidence of being a homoerotic Kremlinoid.

          • Vasyl P.

            What sort of gay fantasies do you have?

          • Andrew Chmile

            You didn’t answer my questions, now did you? —DUM @SS MONHOL FILTH!!!

            STUPID EVIL FILTH!!!
            & “Larissa” — now “L” — is a D Y K E !!! — RUSKA!!!
            RUSKA SCUM!!!

            Gay Moscow
            https://www.google.com/search?q=Gay+Moscow&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

          • Vasyl P.

            You didn’t answer my question either :)

          • Andrew Chmile

            WHAT QUESTIONS YOU LYING RUSKI SCUM!!! ???

            Here — since “Larissa — I lost my baby in Donbas after ‘horing with every Ruski in Moscow” — is a DIRTY RUSSIAN ANIMAL !!! — LIKE ALL YOUR ***IGNORANT*** DIRTY — RUSSIAN “females” are — PASS THIS AROUND TO THEM — THEY DO SMELL!!!

            Ask people in NY — and EVERYONE IN RUSKI ELEVATORS ….
            They are SO **DIRTY** !!!!

          • MichaelA

            That sort of thing is exactly what Russian trolls write.

          • Andrew Chmile

            I LOVE reading how Ruski suffer in Russia under putin!! :)

            YOU ALL DESERVE IT!!! :)

          • Andrew Chmile
          • Vasyl P.

            I may just join actually :) just gimme a few

          • Andrew Chmile

            to “STUK” on people, you monhol “STUKACH” ruski POS ??

            Or to “REPORT ON” —- a “DONOS” eh? —- you LYING SCUMBAG!!!

          • Andrew Chmile

            You are TOO FKN’ RUSKI & ***STUPID*** to realize WTF real people see in this exchange you POS monhol animal! ;)))

          • Turtler

            “You are TOO FKN’ RUSKI & ***STUPID*** to realize WTF real people see in this exchange you POS monhol animal! ;)))”

            No, I just have the common sense to see someone who is spamming Jew hatred and Gay hatred (which by the way are very traditional Russian prejudices), and who then responded to questions about why you emphasized they were Jewish, didn’t mention non-Jewish oligarch individuals, or the major contributions by many Jews to Ukraine by going into curses.

          • Andrew Chmile

            you are a faqqot …. figures ….. Moscow & St. Petersburg …. yeah…. :)

            Hope you get AIDS!!! 😉

            Then after you will be in HELL …. with the demons going up yo’ monhol sraka! :)))

          • Turtler

            “you are a faqqot ….”

            No, objectively speaking I am not at all.

            Do you even know what the term “faggot” means, moron?

            “figures ….. Moscow & St. Petersburg …. yeah…. :)”

            Nope.

            Columbus, Ohio.

            “Hope you get AIDS!!! ;)”

            Well, that is over the freaking line.

            “Then after you will be in HELL …. with the demons going up yo’ monhol sraka! :)))”

            For someone who spends so much time accusing other people of being Russian spies and homosexuals, you sure do write a lot using Slavic words and Homosexual underground slang.

            Why is that?

          • Alex George

            In other words, you can’t answer his question, so you use abuse as a substitute.

            This appears to be yet another occasion when you try to drag down the reputation of Ukraine, by implying that Ukrainians are anti-semitic.

          • Andrew Chmile

            GROYSMAN THE PM OF UKRAINE IS A **JEW** !!!! —- STUPID MONHOL!!!!

        • Andrew Chmile

          WHY DO YOU ASK ME QUESTIONS YOU ***LYING*** POS RUSKI ***MOLE***

          & NEVER ANSWER MINE????

          Faqqot!!! :))

          • Alex George

            I have given you just as much answers as you deserve. Learn to behave like a half-civilized human being and you may even get more.

    • zorbatheturk

      It is called rent-seeking.

  • Andrew Chmile

    You *POSTED* that YOU & other MOLE-TROLLS were TRYING to get me BANNED from EUROMAIDEN PRESS you RUSKI COMMUNIST POS!!!

    Did you “forget” ? :)

    THAT kind of thing is in your SCUMBAG RUSKI DNA!!!

    FILTH!!! — Just like your parents & grandparents!!
    — LIKE ANY KIDS OF YOURS WILL BE!!! — Traditional RUSKI SCUM!!!

    • Vasyl P.

      You’re trying to get yourself banned from EP with your inflammatory comments. It’s all on you, not on us. Act civilized and you won’t risk that chance.

      • Andrew Chmile

        YOU ARE A ***LYING*** monhol —– ***STUKACH***

        or did you AGAIN “forget” — what *YOU* — POSTED ? :)

        SCUMBAG!!!

        • Vasyl P.

          I’m not lying about that, you aren’t acting civilized

          • Andrew Chmile

            “I’m not lying about that, you aren’t acting civilized”

            SO WTF WERE YOU ***LYING*** ABOUT THAN, RUSSO-MONGOLIAN SCUMBAG ????

            Better question is when do you POS tell the Truth!