Georgian diplomat: If West allows Russia a role in Donbas, Moscow will destabilize Ukraine for decades

Russian peacekeepers

Russian peacekeepers 

2015/02/06 • Analysis & Opinion, Russia

In their rush to end the fighting in southeastern Ukraine, Western governments are in danger of creating a far larger and long-lasting problem for the region and themselves in the future, according to Bacho Korchilava, because if the West legitimizes a role for Russia in the Donbas, Moscow will be able to destabilize Ukraine for decades ahead.

In a comment on NV.ua, Korchilava, who served as press attaché at the Georgian embassy in Kyiv, says that “if Russian peacekeepers appear in the Donbas, Russia will obtain a powerful lever on Ukraine;” and Georgia’s experience shows that Moscow will use it to destabilize the situation well into the future.

The Georgian diplomat offers his comments on this point, he says, because ever more people are talking about some kind of joint peace-keeping force in southeastern Ukraine and because these same people appear to have forgotten how Moscow exploited exactly the same method against his own country.

If Russian forces are involved in some kind of peace-keeping operation in Ukraine, that will create a situation in which Russia “will be able to use it as a powerful lever” on Kyiv, blocking its development and its integration into Western organizations like the European Union and NATO. Neither will take in a country with such “problems.”

“Why am I so certain?” Korchilava asks rhetorically. “Because that is what has already happened with us in Georgia. In fact, it has happened twice, first in South Osetia and a second time in Abkhazia.”

In the case of South Osetia, these forces were organized by the OSCE and in that of Abkhazia, by the United Nations. And the peacekeeping contingents were composed differently. But because the Russians were involved in both, the result, the Georgian diplomat says, was the same – and disastrous for Georgia.

In South Ossetia, there was a mixed force consisting of four battalions, one from the Russian Federation, one from North Osetia, one from anti-Tbilisi forces in South Osetia, and one from Georgia. “Why such a strange formula was adopted no one can explain to this day,” Korchilava says.

But Russian officers were in command, and consequently, “with three votes against one, the command of the Georgian battalion never could influence the decisions and actions of this continent. Everyone knows the result.”

In Abkhazia, the contingent was called “the Collective Forces for the Support of Peace of the Commonwealth of Independent States,” but despite its name, Russia decided who was in it and who was not. And despite seven years of effort, Tbilisi was never able to get Ukrainian troops to replace Russian ones there. Once again, “everyone knows the result.”

The same thing will happen in the Donbas “if Russian peacekeepers appear there. They will simply fix the border between the Donbas and Luhansk and all the rest of Ukraine.” They will promote the flow of contraband and narcotics and allow for “trans-border crime. “Just as it was with us” Georgians.

Such Russian peacekeepers will “constantly” promote local clashes “in order to keep Ukraine in tense situation and not allow it to develop. More than that, they will become a guarantee of the existence of these two gray zones, the “DNR” and the “LNR,” guarantees of the existence of two illegal quasi-formations.”

“And they will also guarantee that Ukraine will not be able to conduct an operation to restore the constitutional order” as well.

As a general rule, Korchilava says, “Russian peacekeepers are unacceptable regardless of how they are dressed up.” And consequently, if the international community decides that peacekeepers are necessary, it is absolutely necessary that it insist that they consist of anyone except the Russians.

Edited by: A. N.

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  • Dr. Stanley Wesolowsky Ph.D.

    At the present time, Feb. 2015, the West has NO PLAN TO STOP
    Russia from destabilizing Ukraine.

    • Milton Devonair

      yup, europe is a bunch of socialists that have been living off of the US for decades and will deal with anyone to keep their failing socialist kingdoms afloat.
      The US is ran by a liberal/progressive (communist lite) that, like all liberal/progressives, want to destroy/undermine the US.
      Neither of the ‘leaders’ of them care about Ukraine. They don’t care about anything or anyone but themselves.

      Great lesson for the world. If you want to remain free–and even living–and there are russians around you or you live next to the russian cesspool, you better start arming and training your citizens to defend themselves, their families, their neighbors, and their country.

      russians can never be trusted to be around humans.
      russia is a disease.

      • Jens A

        Socialists were part of Churchill’s war cabinet and appeasement was performed by a Conservative. I don’t see the connection between “socialism” and the present situation. Orban in Hungary who is very fond of Mr. Putin, is for sure not a socialist!

        • disqus_aJpixObjG7

          Jens, the connection is that all the socialists in europe NOW OPENLY ALLIED WITH THE EXTREME RIGHT fully endorse putin and his scenario. All, all European STATE media, is firmly in Socialist possession and endorse Putin and blame Ukraine in that they uphold the putin /lavrov thesis that there are TWO SIDES to the “conflict” which is a “civil war” and that Ukraine is rife with nazis. (they will NEVER state that in fact the russian parliament is 78% protofascist and neonazi.) Further, Europe’s socialists have their “great satan” and that is the USA and Europe. Socialists reject the notion of soverign independent states and capitalism as their manifesto they work to destroy the nations in which they are active. That is why the BBC telegraph Time, Newsweek etc etc will never state the truth that a criminal protofascist dictatorship – russia- has invaded a weaker neighboring country but follow the putin line of a “civil war” of “separatists” of “Ukrainians shelling their own people” etc. for example last feb. 4th the Swiss national evening news stated that Crimea decided to seceed from russia and “seceeded with the help pf russia” . BBC continually runs stories by the great investigative journalist David Stern who constantly reports about Ukraine being rife with nazis etc etc. Socialists have allied with neo nazis in support of russia against Ukraine. This is interesting because it reveals the true inherent nature of both socialism and fascism – they are both hatched from the same dragon’s egg, nonidentical but twins nonetheless.

          • Jens A

            The extreme right and the extreme left are much the same and they appeal to the same kind of people. Therefore they claim to be each other’s main enemy as they compete for the same followers. But I agree with you on that and they love Putin. But you say “socialists” and yes, the extreme left claims to be socialists, but you generalize and include all socialists in that bucket and that is not at all serious. I can assure you that the most if not next to all socialists here in Denmark, are strongly against Putin. Those who are not, are the typical old commies that make the logic that the US supports Ukraine and therefore they love Putin. You perform same kind of logic. You don’t like socialists and therefore all socialists love Putin, according to you. I think that is very, very unhelpful if you want to fight Putin the best you can.

          • Milton Devonair

            Too simple of thinking. If the ‘extreme right’ “love putin”, then why are they fighting his apes in Ukraine?

            The “extreme right” of Ukraine want “Ukraine for Ukrainians”. The socialists/communists/liberal/progressives want a world government, or second best, ‘regional government’ like the eu or putin’s cis.
            Right thinking people are nationals, not ‘regionalists’ or ‘worldists’.

            I think each nation should stand on their own and put their own people first. Once that is done, then they can interact with other nations, but always think of their own first as, well, that’s what the people of that nation elected them for.

            Europeans have always been ruled over by kings, queens, and dictators, so that’s all they know. That’s why they are so ‘communal’ and always favor strong government control/intervention into their lives.
            And that’s why europe has always been the origin of most of the problems in the western world.

          • Jens A

            FYI: We did get our constitution from our king in 1848. The UK had a parliament before the US even existed. Franco died in the 1970’ies. You are not really up to date regarding Europe. I take it as an insult that you think that I and my fellow Europeans only know about kings, dictators etc. This is no basis for further comments.

          • Milton Devonair

            And muslims invented algebra a thousand years ago.

            Kings and queens do still exist in europe. Dictators are still alive there also–belarus for one, yanukovich for another.
            But either way, europeans kept their king/queen/dictator and/or just replaced that creature with a strong, centralized, faceless central government.

            Europeans have always been that way, seeking a strong, powerful authority to provide protection for them and provide everything else for them. In exchange, they more or less surrender their lives to that authority.

            In America, the government-individual relationship is just the opposite. We put the individual first, government second. (though liberal/progressive obama wants to make us a large european social democracy…ignoring all of their constant failings).

          • Jens A

            Your knowledge of Europeans seems to be very limited and/or very narrow. I can for sure not at all recognise myself or my friends in your description.

          • Milton Devonair

            Well, I’m sure that where you live, the government spends a probably 1% of their gdp on your nation’s military…yet taxes you in the 50% range. I figure that’s about the average for europe.

            I’ve long said the US should pull out of nato and remove all of our bases from europe as they are just using us to defend their nation so they can spend their money on their own social programs.
            England, Germany, Spain and Italy–take out all of our bases/ports and bring our troops back home.

            When ya’ll get into trouble, figure it out for yourselves or see what kind of deals you can cut to get out of it. Everyone meet some place and discuss a resolution to evil/violence. Talking didn’t work well with hitler or stalin, so good luck. Maybe pay a “russia tax” like islam demands if you don’t convert and they let you live.

            And we should also get out of the UN…but unfortunately for both of those organizations, the US is their cash cow, so that’ll never happen.

          • Jens A

            No knowledge

          • Milton Devonair

            I may know more about europe than europeans do.
            Denmark, where I assume you live.
            Military spending: 1.41% of their GDP.
            Taxes (your revenue) : 55.9% of GDP
            (8th highest in the world).

            Like I said, europeans don’t want to spend their money protecting themselves, they want the US to spend our money, money out of my paycheck, to protect them.
            Then they take all their own money and use it for social programs, early retirement, free medical, etc. They spend it all on themselves.

            So if the europeans won’t spend any money to protect themselves, why would they spend any to help protect a fellow european country, Ukraine?

            They won’t.
            Yet they don’t want the US to do it either.

      • Richard Hoover

        WELL SAID,,,,,,,,BARBARIC GHENGHIS KHAN,,OR CON!!! KILLING UKRAINE ,,RIPPING AT ITS LAND AND ECONOMY,, A SICKOS GAME AND TERROR,

  • Jens A

    Yes, it seems that at least part of Europe is experiencing fatigue. But Chancellor Merkel did after all not cave in on Putin’s rabbles yesterday in Moscow. Personally I think that she should not have visited Moscow at all. The Minsk agreement is bad, but it is an a agreement of a kind, and before anything else, Putin should apply to it before any other talks. Until then the West should keep Ukraine afloat and make Russia an economic wasteland.

    • Milton Devonair

      ” the West should keep Ukraine afloat”
      You mean America. Europe hasn’t been able to do anything by itself and has been milking the US for decades. If anything needs to be done, they call on the US to do it. Seems like half of the time they complain about the US, and the other half of the time they want us to give them something or do something. It’s almost like we Americans are forever in debt to europe for some reason.

      The eu cannot afford itself. Taking individual countries that are in various forms of failure and putting them into a group, doesn’t fix their individual failures, it only dilutes the individual failures, thus making fixing it all the more difficult to impossible.

      Europe just went to a different daddy to support their energy habit–russia and their gas. So yet again, europe is the problem.
      And yet again, europe has decided to deal with a problem by not dealing with the problem.

      And yet again, free people/people trying to be free are receiving zero help from europe….because europe is only interested in themselves, their own comfortable, cared for, protected lives.

      Ukrainians need arms to defend themselves and their country.
      Quoting a US representative, “f*ck the eu”. Ukraine needs to live and they’ll only be able to do that if they have the arms to defend themselves.

      • Jens A

        Rubbish

        • Milton Devonair

          Your ‘answers’ are getting shorter.
          Like I said to your other abbreviated, two word reply to me, I’ll say it again:
          Demnark
          Military spending 1.4% of your GDP.
          Tax income: 55.9% of your GDP.

          So where is all that money going? It’s not going to protect your country–that’s what nato is for. But nato is a paper tiger, nothing w/o the US because most of nato are europeans countries.
          Ya’ll spend your money on yourselves, you own lavish social programs.

          Then we Americans have to take money from out paychecks (taxes) to protect europeans because they won’t spend any to protect themselves. They’d rather buy votes with social programs and let the US protect them.

          So if europe won’t protect themselves, why would they protect a european country like Ukraine?

          They won’t.
          But they don’t want the US to protect them either. They want to keep their socialist paradise going at all costs, even if whole countries need to become enslaved by russia.

          • Jens A

            You are not to be taken serious. Go talk with Palin

          • Milton Devonair

            Your home of Denmark is part of nato.
            Yet will not pay the required amount (2% of GDP) to maintain even the minimal military to protect your country and other nato countries.

            So why would Ukrainians think your country would do anything for them? You won’t even do it for other nato countries.

            You won’t even do it for your own country and relies on the mean ol USA and likes of Gov. Palin to protect your country so you can spend more money on yourselves.

          • Jens A

            I don’t want to discus with you. Talk with Sarah Palin. She’ll love you. I don’t love your obscure statements about how we all here love dictatorship. Bye bye

          • Milton Devonair

            If Gov Palin were President, the apes of russia probably wouldn’t have invaded Crimea and Ukraine. We are stuck with liberal/progressive obama, someone you would be politically aligned with.

            Please tell the Ukrainians you have better things to do than support them and help them out. You’re planning your comfortable retirement, so they can go pound sand.

          • Jens A

            You really don’t get the message, do you??

          • Milton Devonair

            I do, but I already knew it.
            Now Ukrainians can also get it–europe doesn’t give a sh*t about them.
            Ukrainians can freeze, starve, become soviet russian slaves, or get killed. Europe just wants their money/resources, not any costs.

          • Jens A

            It is you who favour isolationism, not me. Bye

          • Milton Devonair

            If one is in a constantly one sided relationship with an drug abuser, one eventually gets tired of the abuse and costs and wants out of the relationship.

            You europeans won’t even honor your commitments to us, the US, for helping protect your countries, so why should we not pull out?

            Each year we in the US spend $4,000,000,000 to station our military in Germany. And that’s not even counting all the money our troops spend in the German economy.

            Sept 2014, Germany rejected increasing spending on their military to 2%…the minimum by the way.
            October of 2014, from the guardian,
            “A parliamentary report leaked to the German press last month and obtained by the Washington Post detailed the shocking state of disrepair of Germany’s military hardware. Only one of its four submarines is operational. Only 70 out of its 180 GTK Boxer tanks are fit for
            deployment. Just seven of the German navy’s fleet of 43 helicopters are currently flightworthy.”

            The economic machine of the eu is also just sponging off the US, stealing money from us, not helping us, helping our enemies.

            Yes, time to end bad relationships. I’d be open to moving our bases to Poland and Ukraine. And Israel.

          • Jens A

            God’s own country … ahh, no, it is China’s! So, how serious do you really think you are???

          • Milton Devonair

            I just did a word search on “god” and the only mention of it is yours, so I have no idea what you’re talking about.

            Germany won’t even pay the minimum to be a member of nato–and they are the economic powerhouse of the EU.
            So can we all just agree that Ukraine thinking they’re going to get any help from the eu is nothing but a tragic fantasy, something that will never come true?

          • Jens A

            I don’t even want to communicate with you, and even less agree. Bye

          • Milton Devonair

            You are europe. (liberal/progressive/socialist).
            Deny reality.
            Then when reality is presented to you, get mad and try to stop it from being presented to you.
            Then when that doesn’t work, you/europeans run away or just plug your ears and close your eyes and go on living with your heads under your collective pillows.

            And this is why no one is helping Ukraine.
            And no european nation ever will until the war comes into their bedrooms. Then they will finally be forced to see and care.

          • Jens A

            You are a halfwit pretending to be more than that. Your points of view may be of interest at the local bar. I suggest you go there. I don’t even read what you write anymore. Bye

          • Milton Devonair

            I’d not read what I write as it is like when a drunken liar looks in a mirror–he/she can’t lie to himself….so they never look in the mirror.

          • Jens A

            Go pestering someone else

          • Milton Devonair

            Go tell Ukrainians they will all become soviet prisoners in gulags as you europeans aren’t going to help them. Ya’ll have better things to do with your money.

          • Jens A

            Buck off!

          • Milton Devonair

            You do seem to have a problem with facing the reality of what you and other europeans are.
            Bring in more muslims and give them more money, more free things so they can shoot up your cities and people. Guess that’s better than helping Ukraine trying to be free.

            Ya’ll can’t keep running away from everything because eventually it finds you and forces their reality upon you.

          • Jens A

            Look here Pal,

            I live in a country that have been part of US wars in Dessert Storm 1991, Croatia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Kosovo, in the Second Iraq war, in Afghanistan, fighting pirates off the coast of Somalia and we bombed Libya and we are part of the coalition against ISIL.

            We have supported Ukraine with money to produce weapons in their own factories, we support Kiyv Post with money, we are strong supporters of hard sanctions and we initiated a counter propaganda news station in Russian language.

            Our soldiers wanted to be part of the hard actions in both Iraq and Afghanistan and we had heavy casualties as we had to do more actions than any other nation compared to our size, and yet our people supported these wars long after they were publicly very unpopular in YOUR country!

            I have personally sent money to the Ukrainian army, I have support Kiyv Post, I have sent money to Maidanpress and I think that every single dollar I donated is more than you gave.

            I have spend the equivalent of the value of a brand new Ford Mustang V8 to find eyewitnesses from the GULAG and I think you have sponsored ZIP, ZERO, NOTHING of your own pocket. Add to this the money I was able to raise from other people.

            So you shut up and stay FAR away from me. You are a no good buffoon and you should go to your parents and complain to them that they failed completely to lean you even the most basic skills on good behavior.

            You are a perfect example that even among friends and good allies, you find people not worth talking with.

            Good day to you and go to ..ll ! ! !

          • Milton Devonair

            Just on major clarification.
            All of those ‘wars’ you listed weren’t “US wars”. Desert Storm I and II were UN mandated wars.’
            The balkan war was yet another european war that was started in europe by europeans and the only way to stop it, the serbian rape camps and genocide, was to have the US come in there with our military power and use enough violence/force to force a peace.

            And to this very minute, we still have our US taxpayer funded troops and equipment there…just like we still have troops in England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Korea, Japan….

            These countries–and others–need to either start spending more of their money to protect themselves or just be content with whatever comes their way. We Americans have been paying the bills of other countries for decades, over a half a century.
            And they still blame us for the bad in the world and/or asking them to at least pay the minimum.

            Good for you that as an individual, you are contributing to people wanting to be free.
            More euroepeans need to do that and almost ALL european governments also need to do that. Pay now or pay later.

            I say pull the US out of europe so later comes sooner to europe, sort of force the issue on them and get them out of my paycheck and off the TV badmouthing the US for everything.

          • Jens A

            Get away from my comments you hypocrite. You mention NOTHING that YOU have supported other that empty words. They are cheap if no action and you state NOTHING of the kind. Buck off!

          • Milton Devonair

            Actually I have supported Ukrainians, but not in public ways. Such is the nature of things sometimes.

            Now we can move on.

          • Melp

            our military spending goes to afghanistan. dont know what we are doing there. but so you can afford your socialistic paradise better.

          • Milton Devonair

            You do realize that almost 68% of federal spending in the USA is for entitlements don’t you?

          • Melp

            i care for my pocket and not for budgets of foreign countries.

          • Milton Devonair

            Thank you for your honesty. Like I’ve said, Ukraine is in a world of hurt because it has to hope that europeans actually care for other people, people wanting go be free.

            And this is exactly why the biggest…and longest….problems that happen in the world always start in europe. At least african countries slow down in their conflicts every once in a while.

            Europe is a collection of self absorbed, egotistical snobs that on one hand, blame the US for everything and on the other hand, are always demanding more and more money from the US, or get on the phone and call the US when they can’t even do something as simple as stop –yet another european war, europeans setting up rape camps in serbia and slaughtering other europeans.

            I’ve said it before, I’d like the US to pull all of our bases out of europe and let the euros fend for themselves and remove the hundreds of billions of dollars that our government dumps into your failing socialist economies.

            Restrict eu immigration to the US as ya’ll are openly welcoming terrorists and let ya’ll deal with isis, russia/putin, iran, etc.

            And I’ll watch it all on the news.

          • Melp

            when will the cia be able to host its victims in usa camps?

          • Milton Devonair

            WTF are you blabbering about commrade?
            You still in firm russian brainwashing that what happened in Odessa was just another American plot?
            Ignorant toad.

          • Melp

            i don’t know which job it was in odessa.
            i am blabbering about CIA jails in europe were you can peacefully interogate people without beeing disturbed by us law.

          • Milton Devonair

            Oh, the terrorists captured in Afghanistan?
            Well,Qala-i-Jangi quickly showed the unreliable/corrupt nature of many of the institutions/people of afghanistan, so that ruled that out.
            If we brought them to the USA socialists/democrats would want them tried in a criminal court–which is 8 ways of absurd (we have a lot of Rights here that ya’ll socialists don’t have in europe).

            So other non-muslim countries were out too as, well, show us a free muslim country. So that leaves countries with an interest in it, but in the end the worst of the worst went to gitmo.
            You do know that only one terrorist was waterboarded, no? Some units in the US Military go through rougher training.

            Where is “here” where you were?

          • Melp
          • Milton Devonair

            Looks like a german piece of muslim trash just happen to be walking around in afghanistan, minding his own business. There for vacation on the sunny beaches and surf side nightclubs.

            Here’s another german muslim, this time minding his own business in the lush paradise of eastern syria. Can’t wait to read the papers when he and his fellow germans return to germany. Ought to provide lots of laughs for us in the US.

            BTW, muslime terrorists from another country in another country fighting our Military aren’t allowed our Constitutional Rights. They are worms, less than humans.

            But seeing as you cheerlead putin and islamofascist terrorists, I’m sure you just can’t understand that…..

            Is that a severed head he’s holding?

            http://universalfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/RAPPERCOVER.jpg

          • Melp

            thx for your bit of exhibition^^ bye

          • Milton Devonair

            No need to say ‘bye’ to me. I’ll just be watching islamic jihad on the streets of europe as you euros keep bending over for putin, hoping he won’t shut off your gas, all the while telling my Congressman that the US should really think about removing all of our taxpayer funded military from old, western europe.

          • Melp

            keep on watching and brabbling. bye

          • StumpedNoMore2

            That’s why I thought it was a bad idea for Germany to go in to the EU the first place. German culture and other cultures are vastly different. You guys make great cars, machinery, products, etc. Plus, Germans like to save more too.

            With Greece in the EU, it is a no win situation for Germany. Different style of living, culture, values, understanding, and way of life in general. If Greece is expelled from EU, it bring down the value of the Euro down even more. Thus, the saving of ordinary Germans would go down as well. If Greece is to stay in the EU, I just don’t know how they are going to pay their debts. It is almost 300 billions in debt and with a population over just 11 millions. Plus, they are now asking for reparations from Germany which is a move to blackmail Germany.

            If Germany is to reduce or restructure the debt of Greece, it would set a bad precedent with other members of the EU because Spain, Italy, Portugal, and many others are not in good financial shape as well. Germany is a good hard working capitalistic society while some members of the EU (hate to use the word) — socialist.

            Lastly, the EU would be more effective if there were more integration. I’m not talking about Germany dominating the political landscape as each other should have a voice. Germany needs to be the focal point in the monetary and values department. The values I talk about are hard working, saving, less spending, more capitalistic society, equality, fighting corruption, etc. I know you might disagree with some of my focal points Melp but for the EU to be more effective, it must look more like the structure of the US or Canada. Each country representing states or provinces and a more centralized government.

          • Melp

            we are an export nation, so a weak euro is good for us;)
            greece was an political mistake from merkel. ie these 11 bill reparations she could have given instead of the loan. result would be the same (away is away^^). but an allready since years ongoing quarrel would have been solved. from a psycholigical side also not good is this “germany as good example”. just remember when you was a child and your mother allways showed you the boy from the neighbor which you should use as an ideal. there came than the point when you start to hate this boy. and at last its politic, there you make first much noise and negotiate later. payback of debts shall start 2057, but when they are not able we will delay it again, which will then as result be similar to a haircut. so their debts to eu are mostly virtually. at last, even we in germany are glad that the troika was canceled, we just say it not loudly^^.
            the different cultures is one of the good points of the eu. better than a melting pot where all somehow is the same. i just have ie to drive 100 km to the north and i am allready in a different danish culture^^.
            you cant compare the countries so easely ie retiring age in germany and portugual is 67, but the german retires often allready with 65 and will get a bit less money, the portuguese not. we have 6 weeks hollydays , the portuguese 4. so now who is the lazy one?^^
            our sucess now based on reforms which were 15 years ago, since than we had no new reforms. and we dont invest much, you can see this partially allready on the streets, they are crumbling. and science needs also way more investments. so its in my opinion good, that we start now to stop austerity a bit and invest more. and we will start it because the southern states want, so we will later have to thank them. this is another benefit of the different cultures, you have much models and examples and can take what fits for you country. ie these austerity reforms we took in germany 15 years ago from the danes. now we are the leading nation, but 15 years ago we were together with france the ill country of europe.
            integration is not easy to implement. on of our ideas is something like the swiss. which contains more or less 3 nations, italy, france and germans.
            but tell this ie the france, which are way more national orientated like we^^.
            and so we have allready the next problem. france proposed last year a european unemployed insurance. there we would say ok, we can do it but than we want a control system because we dont want only to pay. and than the france would say, our economy controlled by the germans?????
            dont forget last year was the first year when we voted something like an european parliament.
            so you have to see the eu as a process and not as an status quo.

            when we will have a common foreign office we will have allready achieved very much. and you can see it allready with italian eu foreign minister, in the beginning she had an italian opinion, now she has an european one. she and merkel say mostly the same now.

          • StumpedNoMore2

            The difference between your six weeks of holidays and Portugal 4 weeks is that the Germans earned it. You have to have some kind of industries and good research and development center. Unemployment from Portugal 13.5%, France 10.3%, Spain 23.7%, Italy 12.9%, Greece 26.5% —Germany 4.8%. I just don’t know how Greece is going to pay it back the loans. 11 million people and
            they don’t really have any industries like Germany. They have to produce something that people want. I think the advantage that they have is tourism but they have driven away lots of tourists away due to their hostile attitude toward Westerners.
            Forgiveness of debt is ok if they learn from their lessons. How are they going to generate economic activity? How are they going to generate revenues and cut down on expenses? Are they serious enough about corruption and about tax evasion? You can continue to give someone a haircut until you realize when there is no hair less for a haircut. :) The problem isn’t finding work in Greece, the
            problem is finding work and affording housing in Greece.

            Culture is good to have different. The type of culture that I’m talking about is
            momentary policies, political, and economical ones. If these various countries in the EU does not have the same momentary policies, it will be a conflict of interest. I know you are probably tired of paying for other people’s mistake in terms of not managing their money—Greece. Our neighbors in the EU committed to cutting down their debts and entitlements. With
            Greece asking for forgiveness of their loans, there is a new party in Spain
            (Podemos) that is running on the same platform as the radical left Greek party
            Syriza. If Greece debt is forgiven, you will see a large line behind them. It
            will almost become a pandemic and that is why the German government is saying no to Alexis Tsipras and the government.

            This is the same thing I am worried about in the US. The same debt to GDP ratio might be running out of control soon. This year they have narrowed the budget deficit by doing various things like closing down 12 military bases in Europe. The US debt is at 18 Trillion but it is broken down like this: $13 Trillion held by the Public (Social Security program) and $5.2 Trillion is Intergovernmental Holdings agencies, etc. So country like China, Japan, and South Korea hold in total about $6 Trillion dollars from the $13 Trillion dollars held by the public.

            You have to be careful about austerity because where is the money going to come from? You can’t just keep pushing the debt down further the road to the next generation. I’m not looking at the US debt and I’m already in going crazy because there are too much fat in government spending and too much earmarks. Building roads, investment in sciences, technologies, and many others is good. However, you have to watch for corruption and overspending from these countries. That’s why Greece is in the predicament that it is in because of overspending, lack of oversights, corruptions, kickbacks to friends of the government, etc. That is why I have been preaching about having the same values as in the hardworking and least corruption like the German model. If Germany cannot export her model of integrity, honor, anti-corruption, and fiscal conservative model to the lots of these EU countries, you will be repeating the same thing over and over.

            Yeah, I knew integration would be hard for the EU. Integration of fiscal policies and like mindlessness in political views. Having fiscal policies entails everyone is adhering to being fiscally responsible. Lots of countries fail because they spend
            more than they take in. Germany is very conservative with her money and only spend the money that she have. Greece? Spain? Italy? The whole model of greater integration is not to have one country running the whole show like what the French are thinking. It is about coming to a consensus on various topics, policies, and so on. I will give you an example. The US as a whole is very integrated but we have various parts of the country that does disagree all the time. The East and West coasts are very liberal. The Midwest
            and Rust Belt states are mostly independent in voting. The South as a whole is pretty conservative. That is why you’re getting the John McCain and George W. Bush. These congressmen and senators clash all the time in Congress but at the
            end of the day they vote to represent their district or state. This is the type of integration that I hope to see in the future in the EU because we can’t have a member country blackmailing another for reparation for a long time ago.

            What I think will happen to the EU in the future or needs to happen. Each president/head of state of each country will be style governor of that country. Then you have candidates from various member states running for the presidency of the EU. Each country (state) would still have their rights such as: language, custom, culture, and many more. There should be two branches of the law making body of the EU. One will be based on the size of population
            in that particular country. For example, Germany will get more vote than Greece because Germany have a greater population density. The second is that
            each country get two senate seats. You won’t lose your identity in being German, French, Spanish, Greek, etc. Because each country (state) will still be
            making their own laws, keeping their own customs, traditions, etc. It is just that there will be basic laws for everyone to follow like the ones the EU already had.

            Source: https://news.vice.com/article/the-podemos-phenomenon-a-new-left-wing-party-has-transformed-spanish-politics-in-2014

            Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/europe-faces-debt-crisis-and-permanent-austerity-if-deflation-sets-in-2014-12

            Source: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-president-gauck-calls-for-more-european-integration-in-speech-a-885047.html

            Source: http://unu.edu/news/news/europes-future-fragmented-implosion-or-greater-integration.html

            Source: http://useconomy.about.com/od/monetarypolicy/f/Who-Owns-US-National-Debt.htm

  • Richard Hoover

    SMART MAN,,,,,,TOUGH CALL,,,,,,ARMS IS THE ANSWER ,,,ROCK AGAINST ROCK

    ,,THIS WAY UKRAINE WILL NOT BE CANNON FODDER ,,,,SHIELDED AND READY TO STRIKE THE UKRAINIAN COSSACK BLADE BACK AT THE RUSSIAN BEAR! AND PSYCOTIC GNOME PUTLER!