With the war in the Middle East broadening and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy declaring that Ukraine is at war not only with Russia but also with North Korea and Iran, Euromaidan Press spoke to Amir Weitmann, chairman of the liberals in the Israeli-governing Likud Party. The conversation covers the West’s conduct, Israel’s defense model for Ukraine, whether Putin will press the button, and what Jerusalem can do to help Ukraine more now.
Watch the full interview in our video:
EP: Ukraine and Israel are both at war. Are we ultimately facing the same enemies?
Amir: It’s the same coalition, the coalition of evil, which is Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran with their proxies and allies. Like Belarus in Ukraine’s case. Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, and the Shiite militias in Iraq in Israel’s case.
What’s important both in Ukraine and in Israel is that the civilized world wins against the evil coalition, which wants to bring the world back to the dark ages of dictatorship, violence, and barbarism.
EP: Last year, you had quite a passionate interview with RT where you promised that Russia would pay for everything it’s doing, including to Israel. Does that still hold?
Amir: I think yes. But first, Israel needs to finish our own business, which is taking longer than I expected. Then, we will have to find a way to work out a solution to make Russia pay. And it doesn’t really matter who is in power in Israel then. It’s impossible to tolerate attacks like the HAMAS terrorists did on 7 October 2023 when they launched a massacre of civilians because they are Jews.
We cannot tolerate this, and this is something we have shown in the past year. The next step is to tell everyone who was an ally to these genocidal maniacs that they will pay. So, I don’t know exactly what this is going to look like and how and when – but it’ll happen. Something akin to an educational seminar. In the same way, people from Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen, and Iran understand that it’s not a good idea to pick up a fight with Israel or be an ally of genocidal murderers.
EP: But does that include helping Ukraine?
Amir: Yes, I think so. My understanding is that it’s not that Israel isn’t helping at all. But not enough.
Again, we’re at war, so opening a new front is tricky. We didn’t go on a full war against Lebanon until we felt that the situation in Gaza was under control.
Even now, we’re not yet at full power against Lebanon because, essentially, we need to get rid of the bunkers and all of Hezbollah’s infrastructure at the border. Only then will there be a possibility to widen the conflict within Lebanon. We also have not yet answered properly against Iran, but all these things will happen.
Regarding Ukraine, it depends on when the war with Russia ends. If over the next few weeks or months, it is going to be difficult for us to step in. But if Ukraine manages to hold its ground, and it’s the responsibility of the Western countries, first of all, to make sure that Ukraine has the resources to do so, then Israel will help Ukraine against Russia in some way.
I do not doubt this because Israel must punish Russia, regardless of what’s happening in Ukraine.EP: Any insights into how?
Amir: Some intel, perhaps. Or weapons. We captured a lot of weapons from Hamas and Hezbollah, which are often Russian, Chinese, and Iranian. Israel doesn’t need them that much. I think it could be a good idea to ship at least some of them to Ukraine. This is probably something we could do soon.
Russia needs to be punished and finished, and on top of it, we need to show Putin and his regime that aggression bears a price. I think that it’s a collective responsibility of the West to help Ukraine and Israel defeat the enemies.
EP: Tell me, Israel often rejects Western recommendations. How come you’re so good at it?
Amir: Israel has no choice. Because if we listen to the West, we’re going to die. I say that with a lot of sadness, angst, and concern, but the Western world is very, very weak. Probably because of the WWI and WWII traumas, which is why Europe is not ready to fight anymore. After all, since WWII, most wars, even the Yugoslav Civil War, were not waged on Western soil.
The problem is that they want to essentially buy short-term peace at the expense of long-term peace and stability, saying, “Let’s stop the war at any cost.” But it’s not the right attitude because when you are dealing with regimes like Putin’s and Hitler’s, being weak is an invitation to them to be aggressive. The price that we pay for this attitude is renewed aggressivity from Russia and from China, too.
You need to be strong and not just have a strong army but also be willing to use it to kill your enemies. We also have the technology to be much stronger than Russia. The Russian army is very, very weak and not very relevant.
You need to be willing to use the existing resources, including causing massive casualties to the enemy and having to suffer casualties on your own. That’s what Ronald Reagan and the US president said 40 years ago: peace through strength, right?
EP: The West often floats this idea of Israel’s security model for Ukraine. Would you recommend it to us?
Amir: Yes. In hindsight, I want to say to Ukraine that it’s too late now, as it should have been adopted many years ago, certainly after 2014. There’s no alternative to universal conscription, where everyone goes to the army for 2-3 years. This is not something I like, personally. I would prefer having none at all or to have professional armies like almost all Western countries. But this is not realistic when you are facing an enemy such as Russia.
Also, you need to spend a lot of money on your defense and become a technology hub, whether by creating those technologies yourself or buying and replicating them. As well as establish a large domestic and military industry and being very careful with its soldiers because if Ukraine has suffered tremendous losses, we cannot be complacent about this.
Other than that, Ukraine needs to find creative ways like Israel when it carried out the beeper operation, taking out the Hezbollah members. For example, the Kursk invasion was a good idea. But you must also find other creative ways of hurting the Russians and creating victories because victories motivate. You need to think outside the box. We have no choice as the West is pathetically weak, so it’s up to us to bring us in the direction that we want, even if that’s not what they wanted to begin with.
EP: How can Jerusalem and Kyiv collaborate already now to a greater extent?
Amir: It’s a question of political will. I think it exists in Ukraine. Less so in Israel because we’re fighting on seven fronts: Gaza, Jordan, Judea and Samaria, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Yemen. We’re trying to minimize the number of enemies, which I understand.
I think it’s important for Israel to help Ukraine as much as we can under the circumstances. It is important to tell our enemies, including Russia, that they must understand that attacking us comes with a price, and helping people who attack us also comes with a price.
And if you help our enemies, we’re going to help yours. That’s the language that they can understand.EP: Do you think it’ll happen anywhere soon?
I think after this whole war is finished, the time will come. Even though I think that, to a certain extent, it’s a mistake. I think we should find a way already.
EP: In our previous talk, you touched a little bit upon Russian imperialistic ambitions. What do you make of them?
Amir: Years ago, Putin held a whole ceremony next to Catherine the Great’s statue. He wanted to send a message that Russia is back and that we are recreating the Russian Empire.
At some point, we all thought that they changed. But I was wrong. I think everybody was wrong. Well, almost everybody. I think former US President Richard Nixon had an interview in the early 1990s after the fall of the Soviet Union in which he said that’s exactly what will happen. It’s fascinating to watch this over 30 years later.
The only way for Russia to change is for them to pay such a high price that they say it’s not worth it. They don’t need the Donbas or Crimea. It’s ridiculous. Sure, Russian speakers and ethnic Russians living outside of Russia should be respected, as should their rights and language. But there’s no legitimacy in the world to invade other countries. This is something very simple. They should understand that if they carry on the aggressive imperialistic policies, they will be destroyed.
That would also trigger internal changes within Russia because I don’t think that there’s some sort of genetic or even cultural reason that makes it impossible for Russians to be democratic, normal and civilized. I think it’s possible. But Russian society has many problems. For them to come back to being part of the civilized world, they need to understand that they have no choice because if they carry on with their policies, they will lose badly.
EP: Some people in the West think that Putin would resort to nukes. Would you agree with that?
Amir: No. That’s something that could happen in Iran. Not in Russia. Putin is not some Shiite suicide terrorist. He’s a thug, a mafioso.
Sure, Russia has a very large stockpile of nuclear weapons and has the means to use them. But they understand what the price is going to be. America, France, and England also have nuclear weapons and better means to send them to St. Petersburg and Moscow.
On top of that, Putin personally should be told that he will be killed if he dares use anything like that. He personally will die together with his family, his friends, and his entire regime. There should be an online list of Putin’s regime’s cronies with their addresses because it is not so complicated to know where they live.
EP: We talked briefly about nuclear weapons and the Israeli defense model. Just recently, President Zelenskyy went to Brussels, and he made it clear that to establish peace in Ukraine, we have basically two options: either NATO membership or nukes. What do you think about nukes in Ukraine? And is the Israeli defense model at all possible without nukes?
Amir: Good question. I think Ukraine should be integrated into the European Union and NATO. The problem is that you cannot adhere to these organizations if there is a territorial dispute with another country. Ideally, however, Ukraine should join the two.
Nukes-wise, it’s a tough question. We’d like to avoid nuclear proliferation, but, on the other hand, the Russians have deployed apparently tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus. Maybe it would be a good idea to go and take them.
EP: How?
Amir: Find a way.
EP: Like the Israelis do?
Amir: Yes, be creative. Go, grab them, and bring them back to Ukraine with a few launchers.
EP: We will certainly consider that.
The interview has been edited for clarity.
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