Putin’s system is irreversibly collapsing, says Piontkovsky

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Analysis & Opinion, Politics

The future of Vladimir Putin and system of power he created will be determined in the next few months, and it will depend on the actions of the United States, believes Andrei Piontkovsky, the renown Russian analyst and political scientist. In a recent interview, he shared his views on what awaits the Putin regime.

Piontkovsky believes the Kremlin has not fully realized the extent to which the American political establishment’s attitude toward the Putin regime has changed.

“These changes are a direct consequence of Trump’s victory. Before the election, those in Washington who understood the nature of the Russian threat were a distinct minority. Now, however, confronting the Russian threat has become mainstream among the American military and political elite. This was unconditionally demonstrated at the Aspen Security Forum in Aspen, Colorado, on July 18-21, 2017. Representatives of nearly all the US military and national security establishment – from previous and current administrations – gave presentations. The main theme of the speakers was that Putin is waging total hybrid warfare against the West, that this reality must be recognized as an existential threat, and that Putin must be defeated,” the analyst said.

New US sanctions against Russia signed into law on August 2 became an expression of this now mainstream American stance, stated Piontkovsky.

“Trump signed the sanctions law with extreme reluctance, called it unconstitutional and made it clear that he will sabotage this law as much as possible. However, it is obvious that he can no longer influence American policy regarding Russian-Ukrainian affairs. It’s safe to say that it’s not Trump and Tillerson who are determining America’s foreign policy but General James Mattis and US Special Representative for Ukraine Kurt Volker. Their position is so hard-line that even the Ukrainian leadership can hardly keep up in official statements. The law on the status of Donbas only recently managed to include some of Volker’s formulations. It should be noted, Trump’s legendary incompetence worked in Ukraine’s favor. Had he at least a modicum of understanding of the Ukrainian people and their challenges, he would never have appointed Volker to this position,” the expert says.

Andrei Piontkovsky points to Section No. 241 of the new Russia sanctions law as containing the most serious provisions, relating to the assets of Putin and his closest associates.

“The law requires the US Treasury Department to report within 180 days on the identity of senior Russian political figures and oligarchs and their assets in the United States to place on the sanctions list. In fact, this part is rather perfunctory. Of course, all these individuals and their assets have already been identified long ago. What remains to be done is simply applying standard American laws concerning the laundering of capital acquired by criminal means. The National Bureau of Economic Research has already determined that $1.2 trillion belong to the highest echelon of officials who are also businessmen and Putin’s judo cohorts. The sanctions law in fact extends the Magnitsky Act Sanctions to the entire top echelon of Russia’s political elite. Moreover, once these people are named, the matter will become irreversible, because the law will begin to be applied against them regardless of the wishes of any particular politician,” stresses the political scientist.

Andrei Piontkovskiy

Andrei Piontkovsky

The political fate of Vladimir Putin depends on the loyalty of his top circle of elites, who have grown accustomed to keeping protected in Western countries the money they steal from Russia. This loyalty has been shaken by the law passed by Congress. – Piontkovsky

Andrei Piontkovsky repeatedly emphasizes: the political fate of Vladimir Putin depends on the loyalty of his top circle of elites, who have grown accustomed to keeping protected in Western countries the money they steal from Russia. This loyalty has been shaken by the law passed by Congress.

“Presidential elections in Russia, just like all elections in Russia today, are a meaningless manipulation of public opinion. The real election is what is happening today, October 7, the day a small circle of those closest to Putin gather to mark his 65th birthday. Today I assure you they discussed only one matter and that’s Section 241 about personal sanctions,” the columnist suggests.

Piontkovsky is convinced that more than anything else, the “golden hundred” of Russia’s richest officials/businessmen want to hold onto their trillion dollars, and that explains why they would go for a so-called “hybrid capitulation.”

For the first time in 17 years, Putin’s entourage has doubts about the ability of the head of the state to successfully carry out his functions–the primary function of the regime leader being to guarantee the security of the assets stolen in Russia that are held in Western countries. The sanctions law of August 2 is therefore the destruction of the economic and political foundations of Putin’s system. – Piontkovsky

“A test step in this direction was a statement made by Putin a few weeks ago about the possibility of sending peacekeepers to the Donbas. However, this attempt had no impact, since his proposed conditions were neither acceptable to Ukraine nor the West. For the first time in 17 years, Putin’s entourage has doubts about the ability of the head of the state to successfully carry out his functions–the primary function of the regime leader being to guarantee the security of the assets stolen in Russia that are held in Western countries. The sanctions law of August 2 is therefore the destruction of the economic and political foundations of Putin’s system,” the analyst states pointedly.

At the same time, says Piontkovsky, Moscow’s reaction may include “hybrid escalation” as well.

“Such an increase is a part of the overall negotiation with the West. We shouldn’t preclude that Putin may get hysterical and lose his equilibrium. In addition, there are ‘real troublemakers’ in his entourage who are prepared to aggravate relations. However, Putin really has no good cards left in foreign policy. At the first escalation in Ukraine, Kyiv will be given lethal defensive weapons, which will make the price of any further offensive unacceptable. Moscow’s threat to use tactical nuclear weapons is just another bluff that failed back in 2015 when, despite big threats, NATO began deploying troops in the Baltic States on regular rotation,” reminds Andrei Piontkovsky.

According to the political scientist, another factor that may affect the loyalty of the Russian elites towards Putin is the “Chechen question.”

“All Russian military officials, except General Zolotov, oppose Putin on the issue of Chechnya and Kadyrov. All of them demand “Kadyrov’s head,” Piontkovsky reminds.

Piontkovsky believes it is likely that the individuals on the new sanctions list will be named in the near future. And this will aggravate the discussions going on in the Kremlin right now.

“It’s worth noting that some oligarchs are already coming to Washington attempting to find common ground with American authorities. Against this background, the political elite’s pressure on Putin will be very strong,” underscores the analyst.

At the same time, Andrei Piontkovsky has no illusions about a future successor.

“Most often, after the fall of a dictator, the same sorts of scoundrels tend to come to power. However, they are forced to change their policies. The main task of Russian elites today is to save their trillion dollars, which will entail establishing relations with the West in some new format. Most likely, the new junta that will come to power in Russia will offer a kind of “deal”: they leave Donbas completely, and the West, in turn, temporarily “forgets” about Crimea, without official recognition of its annexation,” he supposes.

Also, according to the analyst, it’s highly probable that the process of the collapse of “Putin’s vertical” which will start during this change of power will become irreversible.

“Each authoritarian system is based not only on force, but also on a hero myth of its leader. Whether Putin’s successor is Sergei Ivanov or someone else, there is no such myth, and there will be no time to create one. Moreover, Putin’s successor will not be able to stop the process already underway of the confiscation of the stolen trillion dollars, which on its own is already destroying the entire system created. More than ever, Putin’s fate and the fate of all his thieving judo-loving cronies depend on the actions of the United States,” concludes Andrei Piontkovsky.

Translated by: Paula Chertok, Karli Iskakova
Source: Krym Realii

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  • zorbatheturk

    Sheesh! $1.2 TRILLION!!!!! Putin and his buddies put Ronnie Biggs to shame! Why rob a train when you can rob an entire country! No wonder Western banks are awash with deposits. No wonder real estate is booming. This is Grand Theft RuSSia. Unfreakingbelievable!

    • veth

      After confiscation,UKRAINE CAN CLAIM AROUND 100 BILLION DOLLARS FOR ALL THE CRIMES, MURDERS, INVASIONS, SINCE 2014.

      • Oknemfrod

        I strongly suspect you estimate is way too low.

        • Quartermaster

          Much, much too low. It would probably soak up the entire amount seized.

  • Scradje

    The fate of Ukraine cannot be left solely in Trump’s hands. Pre-election he made almost endless groveling comments about the chekist rodent and tacitly supported the Krim land grab. He followed that up by hiring putinoid scum to work for him, then later rather surprisingly dumped most (not all) of the collaborators and appointed people like Mattis and Volker. But could he pivot back the other way, who knows? Until sanctions with real teeth are imposed and advanced defensive weaponry provided, nothing much will change in Ukraine’s favour.

    • Tony

      Indeed, Trumps administration already sabotaged the sanctions by purposely failing to implement them before the deadline, now congress has do so something.
      I fear this article is somewhat wishful thinking.
      There may be greater recognition of the russian threat but with Trump in power and American politics being deeply divided, there is little reason expect a breakthrough from that side.
      The EU situation doesnt seem optimistic either with brexit still lingering and now Catlonia and the rising strength of the alt-right.
      Something else is needed.

    • Ihor Dawydiak

      Actually, Scradje, and with all due respect, the fate of Ukraine no longer rests in Trump’s hands. When a bipartisan and overwhelming majority in the US Congress became fed up with Trump’s waffling in how to deal with Putin, the dictator’s meddling in the recent US Presidential elections including his use of hybrid warfare and Russia’s aggression against Ukraine as well as his constant barrage of contradictory “tweets”, enough was enough. As such, the US Congress “forced” Trump to sign new legislation whereby the US President could not change or vary the new American sanctions that were imposed against Russia without the approval of Congress. What was equally significant was that Congress also demanded that they be consulted for approval in the direction or any changes in American policies regarding Russo-Ukrainian relations. To the best of my knowledge, this has never happened before in American foreign policy in regards to Russo-American relations but Trump had little choice. If he had opposed or ignored the overpowering will of the US Congress, he would have faced the very real threat of becoming a “lame duck” President, not to mention increased calls for his impeachment. All in all, great news for Ukraine. Not so great news for Muscovy and its foremost pederast.

      • Scradje

        Agreed. But in order to see some real movement in the right direction, putler’s corporate poodle Tillerson needs to be jettisoned and replaced by Mitt Romney or Marco Rubio, both of whom understand with crystal clarity the nature of the threat posed by the chekist rodent and how to deal with it decisively. Can’t see that happening, but; you never know!

        • Ihor Dawydiak

          Anything is possible although I’m not convinced that high profile individuals such as Romney or Rubio are still interested in becoming part of Trump’s Administration. As for Tillerson, there may be more there than meets the eye considering the strong allegation that he recently called Trump a moron. It should also be noted that even though he had previous dealings with Putin’s Administration and accepted an award from the same for his role in advancing co-operation between the US and Russia in the energy sector, there has been much to suggest that Tillerson is anything but naive when dealing with the Russians. Personally, I would prefer to closely watch, wait and see how he formulates policy before passing judgment.

          • Scradje

            Tillerson is certainly not naive; far from it. He knows the chekist rodent and is clearly indifferent towards Ukraine’s plight. His loyalties are more towards Exxon than curbing fascist land thieves.

          • slavko

            At the outset of Tillerson’s appointment I was hesitant about him too. However, Tillerson is on record denouncing Russian invasion of Ukraine and has publicly called for the return of Crimea and Donbas to Ukraine. He may have loyalties to Exxon as he has been with Exxon for many years and has nurtured that company to what it is now. But I also think that he understands that Putin’s behavior of annexing lands from neighbors is not conducive to a stable business relationship. International corporations prefer a stable political climate within which to operate. Case in point is Venezuela… who the hell wants to gamble on that hell hole created by an autocrat?? Only Putin. And that’s solely in the interest of keeping in power the type of dude that is willing to steal from his own people and then to share the spoils with Putin. This is how the Grand Duchy of Moscow became the empire as they robbed their own people and split the spoils with the Khan of the Golden Horde. Applied History 101.

        • WisconsinUSA

          Not Rubio. He would be putty in putins hands. Maybe Romney yes .

          • Scradje

            Rubio published a clear, decisive strategy towards the chekist rodent during the early stages of his election campaign. Unfortunately it was removed from his website after he dropped out. Sadly the American people preferred trumpkov, who at the same time that Rubio was talking sense, was making a stream of groveling tributes to the squalid little tyrant. Col. Allen West also demonstrated a clear understanding of how to deal with the putler question, but seems to have drifted more towards trumpkov. Has he said anything recently?

          • Sania

            cheap fasci ukropiteck, u got smelly job on the corps of victims
            of filth ukra rebel…

      • Tony

        Trouble is stuff like this: “Trump administration ignoring deadline for Russian sanctions”
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-administration-ignoring-deadline-russian-sanctions-article-1.3557289
        I fear trump can still serve to sabotage the sanctions, even if he only delays them.

  • Vol Ya

    For ordinary Russians, life is a grim reality. There are concrete signs of dissatisfaction bubbling to the surface. These are tangible indicators of frustration with salary cuts, unpaid wages, and social services reduced by Moscow. These small events are the canary in the coal mine and spell trouble down the line for the Russian government.

    • Tony

      Yes, russians realizing that they live worse than others is best way to topple putin. About demographic decline, EU has the same problem.

  • Vol Ya

    There is nothing Russia can do to reverse its demographic decline. It is arithmetic at this time – rising poverty and disease rates and declining life expectancy. Russia is dying. So what does putin do. He attacks his neighbors and tries to destroy and destabilize other countries to try and make Russia look better in comparison. His actions are not working. Nobody wants to move to or live in Russia.

    • Dagwood Bumstead

      Not only that, but the demented dwarf has been “improving” what passes for health care in Dwarfstan by closing hospitals, sacking medical staff and slashing the budget for health care so he has more rubbles for his insane wars in the Donbas and Syria. These two wars are also further reducing life expectancy for Dwarfstanian men, which wasn’t all that great to begin with.

      • Screwdriver

        Life expectancy in Dagestan is 77.2 years. When you right you right, could be better of course – neighboring Ingushetia is 80.8 years.

        • Brent

          “Screwball”, do you even understand the difference between “Dwarfistan” and “Dagestan”?

          You keep comparing this fictitious farcical empire of Dwarfistan and the actual Republc of Dagestan….you’d better cut back on inhaling toilet cleaner fumes…..

    • Oknemfrod

      >So what does Putin do<

      He cares not a whit. To him and his coterie, the rest of the Russians are but a herd of cash cows disposable after their udders go dry.

  • veth

    49 people were detained in the occupied Crimea for “unauthorized picketing”. After the so-called local police “talked to them”, they were released, Interfax informs linking to the so-called “Ministry of Internal Affairs of Crimea”.

    Related: Zeman to not apologize for his statement about Crimea
    “For violating the demand of the federal law on gatherings, meetings, demonstrations, marches, and pickets, 49 citizens were brought to the internal affairs authorities. After giving their explanation and holding preventive talks with them, all participants were released,” the so-called Ministry wrote.

    On October 14, around 100 people of the occupied Crimea went onto the streets and roads with one-man protests against the abuse from security services, and in defence of the political prisoners. They held banners with writings like “Crimean Tatars aren’t terrorists”, “Freedom to political prisoners” etc, often along the roads.

  • veth

    Successful tests of powerful anti-tank missile in Ukraine
    Ukraine military announce successful testing of a new anti-tank Skif (Scythian) missile, Secretary of the Council for Security and Defense Oleksandr Turchynov said, gogetnews.info reported Oct. 14.

    The testing went on under various climatic conditions in Ukraine and abroad, including deserts with their high temperatures.

    The official praised the distinguishing characteristics of the missile capable of penetrating 1-meter thick armor at the distance of 5.5 km. Читайте більше тут: http://zik.ua/en/news/2017/10/15/successful_tests_of_powerful_antitank_missile_in_ukraine_1186699

  • Ihor Dawydiak

    The fact of the matter is that the Americans are dealing with Russia from an ever increasing position of strength whereas Russia, as was clearly defined in this article, has already played its best cards and has little to show for their attempts at subterfuge and empty threats. Moreover, the Americans have not yet played their Ace of Spades. If Russia’s major oligarchs (Putin’s lifeline) are threatened, their Western bank accounts seized or frozen and their mobility banned or highly restricted, what realistic options would Putin have to counteract these measures? And why would the Americans have to agree to sacrifice Crimea in return for a Russian withdrawal from Eastern Donbas? In fact, who can out wait whom? Is it not Russia that is racing down the road to bankruptcy? The answers to these questions should be more than obvious. If Putin cannot stymie and reverse this flow of events (if that is even possible), then oblivion could be just around the corner.

    • Dagwood Bumstead

      I’ve said it before: the old Stones song “Time is on my side” does not apply to the dwarf.

  • Screwdriver

    Piontkovsky did not say nothing new for the last 20 years. Is he all about copy-paste his old articles ? :-)

    • Brent

      Claims the stooge who just b*tched about “Ukraine Insurgent Army” of 75 years ago!!! Piontkovsky is far more current than you!!!

    • Oknemfrod

      Yes, he is repetitive; but repeating that 2+2=4 doesn’t make it less true.

      • Screwdriver

        Well he must be disappointing so many people by providing empty promises of soon to come Russia collapse for so many years. :-)

        • Oknemfrod

          First, he hasn’t promised to do something personally to make it happen, so his prognoses can’t “empty promises” on his part; the worst that can be imputed to him is being off time-wise. Second, patience is a good virtue.

          • Screwdriver

            I am one of the disappointed by the way. In 2006 he promised that Israel would strike Iran “удар будет нанесен до осени” by fall of 2006.
            https://graniru.org/Politics/World/Mideast/m.103376.html
            Today is 2017, and I am still waiting, wasted money on popcorn… :-(

          • Микола Данчук

            Your preference would be blood & guts (as long as it’s someone else’s)?
            Very disappointing, isn’t it?

          • Микола Данчук

            Screwy has no patience nor virtue or the ability to comprehend any rational summations.

        • Brent

          Your beloved Putin? Yes, I am sure you will end up disappointed that all of his promises were so empty and his bank account of stolen money is so full….

  • Screwdriver

    Meanwhile in Ukraine:
    In Kiev, where the procession in honor of the 75th anniversary of the Ukrainian insurgent army, the vandals left anti-Polish graffiti on the house № 2 on the Boulevard Maria Primachenko, where tomorrow there will be the Grand opening of the mural with the image of St. John Paul II.

    According to the representative of the Polish Embassy in Kyiv Karol Azovskogo writing on the wall appeared, probably in the night of Saturday, October 14
    In particular, vandals painted a swastika and the Polish inscription “to erase it” (usunac to), “Polish dog blood” in different interpretations (Polska krew psa, Psa polski krew), “the Uniates will not pass” (Unia nie przejdzie).
    http://z-news.link/in-kiev-desecrated-the-house-with-the-image-of-the-pontiff/

    • slavko

      It’s already been shown that the “vandals” you speak of are in fact Russian agents. They did the same to Polish cemeteries and Ukrainian cemeteries hoping to incite animosity between the Poles and Ukrainians. This is typical Kremlin activity that you are blaming Ukrainians for.

      • Screwdriver

        So recently arrested “Ukrainian teens” are actually Russian agents ?
        https://www.unian.info/society/2180221-ukraine-teens-arrested-in-vandalism-at-jewish-cemetery-media.html

        And how about Ukrainian teens arrested in 2012, before the War, are they also Russian agents ?
        https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-damaged-holocaust-memorial/24607906.html

        • slavko

          And so? Is that any different than any other teenager anywhere else in the world. What they did was wrong. No question! They got caught and rightfully so. And so the teenagers have their impetuous immature behavior which has been recognized and hopefully corrected. Russia has zero excuse for its wanton barbaric behavior. Russia is no teenager.

          Fact STILL is not changed that the Russian Federation INVADED, VIOLATED and annexed Ukrainian lands against internationally accepted treaties and border aggreements. You are only here trying to dilute Russia’s abhorrent criminal behavior!

          • Screwdriver

            “It’s already been shown that the “vandals” you speak of are in fact Russian agents. ”

            “And so? Is that any different than any other teenager anywhere else”

            Looks kinda contradictory, no ? :-)

          • slavko

            You post different comments suggesting different events. Yes, Kremlin agents have been acting as vandals in both Ukraine and Poland in order to create division between Poles and Ukes.

            Also, there’s no doubt in my mind that there are some Ukrainian teenagers misbehaving aka juvenile delinquents. I can understand a kid pulling wings off a fly and that behavior can be corrected. But immaturity is hardly a reason for a government run by older men and women to behave inhumanely.

          • Screwdriver

            “Kremlin agents have been acting as vandals in both Ukraine and Poland”.
            Any proof ?
            Kremlin is very creative indeed, check this :
            http://nk.org.ua/obshchestvo/raskryita-tayna-lvovskogo-musora-ego-podbrasyivaet-ruka-kremlya-118595

          • slavko

            Ha ha… it pains my eyes to read Russian. Please refrain from that.
            However, this is in English:
            https://jamestown.org/program/russias-hybrid-war-against-poland/

            http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/06/spoiling-ukrainian-polish-relations-next-phase-in-kremlins-hybrid-war-volyn-upa/

            http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/03/ukraine-claims-it-detained-gang-plotting-to-exacerbate-ukrainian-hungarian-tenstions/

            there’s enough proof of what Russia’s neighbors are finding out about Russian effort to create a pro-Russian divide in Eastern Europe.

          • Screwdriver

            Sorry, I did not see there anything about Kremlin agents posing as Ukrainian vandals.

          • slavko

            Liar!!

          • Микола Данчук

            That is his go to, along with deflection and misinterpretation.

          • Screwdriver

            Those are speculations, in order to calm relationship, no one was caught and sentenced as an Russian agent, Klimkin admitted that :
            “An even closer cooperation between Ukraine and Poland, including with regard to identifying and punishing those perpetrators, will be our response to the actions by vandals”
            http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/409306.html
            Not even identified, – complete BS.

          • slavko

            Good article. Thank you for that!

          • slavko

            If you read the 2nd link there’s a money trail to Russian oligarch Konstantin Malofeyev.

          • Screwdriver

            Yes, I just checked that.
            SBU is a very close relative to KGB, so it does not surprise me.
            It reminds me old dirty games, when dirt was made to label opposition.
            It would be more easier for me to believe that Ukrainian teens were jumping on the Jewish graves, in order to test, how strong the grave stones are.
            https://www.unian.net/society/783088-podrostki-vandalyi-razbili-66-nadgrobiy-na-evreyskom-kladbische-foto.html

            The problem is that there is a pattern.
            And I would probably pay more attention to conspiracy theory if OUN would not have a history of anti polish and anti Jewish agitation, in conjunction with the fact that these Nazis considered heroes now.
            So it is only natural for radical Ukrainian teens to follow the steps of they heroes

          • Brent

            I noticed something on your avatar….”Businessman”….does that mean you now own your own toilet cleaning brush?

            Congratulations! But I’m sure when Putin discovers you were funneling money from your terrorist funding gathering to your own “business” you may get blown to sh*t like your heroes “Motorola” and “Mozgovai”…..

          • zorbatheturk

            Ha ha ha!

          • Kruton

            He’s just a brainwashed Trumpbot.

          • slavko

            I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. There’s nothing there. Teens acting like disrespectful kids is just that IF the stories that you plant are to be believed. However, the crimes against humanity committed by Putin and Company cannot be forgiven as some childish pranks and crimes of ignorance.

          • Screwdriver

            Childish pranks, really ?…
            When parents spreading hate in they family, this is how those “childish pranks” can look like:
            https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/jewish-woman-chased-men-youth-armed-clubs-lviv-pogroms-1941/

          • slavko

            Hmmm… and the Russia and their man Stalin controlled Ukraine in 1941. And the Stalin deported Ukrainians out of Ukraine and imported Russians into their places… and the Russia sent in KGB dressed as Ukrainians and Germans into the area to murder people… This is why the Russia keeps their historical archives under lock and key…. and the Russia hosts naazi parties in St. Petersburg. And the Russia has the greatest number of fascist and ultra-nationalist parties on the planet. These are not idle accusations. They are proven.

          • Screwdriver

            Ти йому про Тараса, а він — півтораста

          • Kruton

            #Trumpscum

          • Kruton

            You need proof against Bolshevik child raping savages! Oh it’s true!

          • Kruton

            #I bend over for Trump

        • Kruton

          Go suck Putlers d*ck Trumpbot.

    • Brent

      BANDERA!!! BANDERA!!! BANDERA!!!!

      If I have to keep doing this for your “Screwball”, I’m going to claim your extra cabbage as payment this week….

    • Oknemfrod

      You don’t know who those vandals are. Previously, SBU had already arrested a Kremlin-paid group of vandals caught for desecrating Jewish and Polish cemeteries and committing other nefarious acts of the same nature aimed at sowing discord between the Ukrainians and other ethnic groups, ostensibly those whom the Ukrainians are allegedly supposed to “hate”.

      A processions like the one dedicated to the Defender of the Fatherland is a particularly good occasion for using FSB-directed operative groups of this nature since it’s easy for them to use disguise to get dissolved in the crowd, with the added benefit of tying the acts of vandalism to “Ukrainian nationalists”.

      There’s nothing new in this sort of tactics as far as Moscow goes, for it was used to a good degree of success against the UPA itself when HKVD operatives disguised as UPA fighters would ravage and raze Polish and Ukrainian villages alike in order to pin blame for it on the OUN and UPA. Now the Kremlin must have but no more than merely dusted off their old cookbook chock full of time-tested recipes.

      • Screwdriver

        OUN , while making and distributing they anti-polish, and anti-Jewish programs and proclamations, were doing this under the gun of NKVD ?

        • Oknemfrod

          The OUN’s decreed goal was a Ukrainian state independent from Poland and the USSR (and later on – Germany). Since Poland was obviously ruled by Poles and the USSR, in the OUN’s view, was ruled by Jews, their sentiment was thus anti-Polish and anti-Jewish (and later on – anti-German). It is no different in essence from any nation seeking independence at different points in history, such as the Scots (anti-English), Greeks (anti-Turkish), Jews (anti-Egyptian), Chechens (anti-Russian), Texans (anti-Mexican), and countless others. Once a nation has one independence, all such “anti” sentiments tend to gradually subside, as at the time of seeking independence, they are primarily directed, not toward specific people of specific ethnicity, but at the subjugating nation as a collective entity – which evokes anti-ethnic feelings only as a consequence.

          The OUN might be off in the sense that the USSR was primarily ruled by Jews, for at the time of its inception it was no longer the case. However, their anti-Jewish sentiment was constantly and artfully fueled by Stalin who was intentionally and disproportionately making Jews (both during the Holodomor and ensuing taking over Western Ukraine) the front men charged with atrocities perpetrated against the Ukrainian people.

          • Screwdriver

            And who was guilty in Bohdan Kmelnitsky actions ? Not Stalin I hope ?

          • zorbatheturk

            Stalin was guilty of being an assclown.

          • Микола Данчук

            If I may add;
            When OUN was first organizing into a viable organ there was a contingent of Jewish intellectuals that were in association and helped structure the original platform.
            What happened after that is mired by insecurities and conspiracies, with multiple upheavals occurring bought East and West. How that played out is dependent on whose interpretation one prefers.

            This is where OUN factions become relevant and to be sure most notoriety has been levied on a faction with the least support and the most contradiction of that time. It was also the most ineffective but most usurped by the NKVD. Anti-Jewish sentiment has been used as a tool long before OUN-B was formed, the question should be why when many Jews originally favored OUN?

          • Oknemfrod

            It’s a good question. But many Jews favored OUN not only originally. Note that the principal theorist of Ukrainian nationalism and independence Lev Rebet chose to side with the OUN-B faction after the OUN split and continued his vigorous ideological work on behalf of the Ukrainian people (whom he considered his own) in exile till he was assassinated by the KGB in 1957 (even before they murdered Bandera). Also, Jews comprised almost the entire medical corps of UPA, and many served as couriers risking their lives at every twist and turn. One would think that these inconvenient facts would give those Jews who wear the anti-Ukrainian chip on their shoulder something to ponder over. But having known quite a few of them, I also know that breaking through their prejudice – impervious to any facts to the contrary and constantly fueled by their environment (where pretty much all Ukrainians are summarily deemed anti-Semites) – is all but impossible. Our flat-head or Philips (or maybe cocktail?) friend obviously belongs to this group always obsessed by who has done what to Jews. (Oddly, many of those very people have no problem whatsoever emigrating to Germany.)

          • Микола Данчук

            By all means the Jewish support did not waver but there came a point when even the Jewish members of OUN/UPA imposed a freeze on new membership in fear of bolshevik infiltration (both Jewish and Christian).
            In South-eastern Ukraine some unities of UPA were established by the NKVD and used to terrorize the general population. This is known because they neglected to use OUN and only wanted Christians and Muslims.

            In reality OUN/UPA were viable because of the joint relationship and it would be demeaning to say otherwise!

    • Eddy Verhaeghe

      Screwdriver, ever heard of deviation from the subject that is being discussed? Do you have nno

    • Eddy Verhaeghe

      Screwdriver, ever heard of deviation from the subject that is being discussed? In this case the survivability of Putin’s economic and social system?

      I suppose you lack arguments to discredit Piontkovsky’s article and arguments?

      By the way on a really moderated discussion board the moderator would sanction your comment…

      • Screwdriver

        “The only thing I can do is flag your comment as spam” That is a great input to humanity! Well done!
        P.S Do you flag people who post about Russia in not Russia related articles ? (rhetorical question, I know the answer)
        Example:
        Article named “Include Ukraine in the South East Europe Regional Anti-Corruption Initiative”
        http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/03/for-sustainable-effect-ukraine-should-join-the-regional-anti-corruption-initiative/
        Words “Russia”, and “Putin” are nowhere to be found in that article.
        some comments :
        veth “Trump appoints another Anti-Russian hawk”
        zorbatheturk “Putin and corruption go hand in hand”

  • Greg

    it remains to be seen if the USA will truly stand against Russia, Trump as Putin’s agent is working hard to cause chaos and destroy American liberty. Trump wants to arrest news people just as Putin does. Like Putin , trump cannot accept any views that are different than his own. Will the US Congress rise to the occasion or will they allow Trump to mold the nation into a Russian view of the world? Trump wants the same power Putin holds and he is very frustrated by the USA laws, rules, constitution all of which he has no respect for, same as Putin in Russia. these two men are the same, but Putin has some intelligence. Trump’s mental illness cannot be ignored forever!

    • Screwdriver

      You must be a democrat , you poor thing ? Black lives matter , right ?

      • Eddy Verhaeghe

        Screwdriver, all lives matter.
        The fact that you posted this rhetorical ” You must be a democrat , you poor thing ? Black lives matter , right ?” makes me think that you’re not a democrat, nor that black lives matter to you…

        • Screwdriver

          “all lives matter” – this is a republican motto (not sure if you knew that) , it does not mean that black lives do not matter.

          • zorbatheturk

            Shaddapsky, retard.

          • Sania

            bastardos, like monkeys in band during winter, u find smelly shelter here
            and give last filth heat themselves, hehehe…

          • zorbatheturk

            Fargov, maggotbrain.

          • Sania

            uneducative, are u read The Maggot about brutans eater of men and truth?
            Hahaha…

          • zorbatheturk

            You are a turd.

          • Sania

            No
            Right is
            u are the turd

          • zorbatheturk

            I dispute that.

      • Greg

        funny, no just a man who can read and think for himself. Not a person who accepts Trump’s daily lies as fact, like his followers. Trump complains about “Fake News” yet he is the worlds biggest lair!!! In fact Trump has no grasp on reality at all. the man should be in a mental hospital!

      • Kruton

        Trump is a chump.

  • zorbatheturk

    PJM = Putin Judo Mafia.