Putin’s ‘hybrid’ recognition of Moscow-sponsored breakaway republics in Ukraine

Russian occupation force entering a captured town in the Donbas, Ukraine in April 2014 (Image: kommersant.ru)

Russian occupation force entering a captured town in the Donbas, Ukraine in April 2014 (Image: kommersant.ru) 

International, More

Yesterday, Vladimir Putin officially recognized passports and other documents issued by the “Donetsk Peoples Republic” and the “Luhansk Peoples Republic” as valid for entry into and living in the Russian Federation, an action Ukraine and the West have condemned but that Russian nationalists see as a step toward the recognition of these “states.”

This latest manifestation of Putin’s preference for “hybrid” actions (i.e. moves that in fact mean one thing but that offer him plausible deniability in a world increasingly predisposed to accept alternate facts at least from leaders of nuclear powers) has so many consequences that not surprisingly it has sparked a huge number of commentaries in the last 24 hours.

Almost all say that Putin by this action has raised the stakes in the conflict in Ukraine with some suggesting that it points to a South Ossetia-style future for the Donbas and others denouncing it as confirmation of Russia’s occupation of part of Ukraine’s territory (regnum.ru, kasparov.ru and rbc.ru).

Many argue that this represents the end of the Minsk process and Putin’s “asymmetrical response” to US President Donald Trump’s declaration that Moscow must return Crimea (gordonua.com and kp.ru).

And while some in Ukraine are demanding that Kyiv respond by ending its visa free regime with Russia, others in Russia are celebrating what they say is Putin’s “recognition of the documents of countries he doesn’t [yet] recognize.

But perhaps the most useful of the initial responses to Putin’s latest move are two articles today, one by an individual Ukrainian commentator and a second which assembles the view of several Russian observers concerning what Putin is trying to do with his latest action and equally important who are the Kremlin leader’s intended target audiences.

Ukrainian commentator Vitaly Portnikov says that Putin’s latest move signals to several key audiences that Russia does not ever intend to leave the Donbas and that Moscow “not only intends to preserve its control over the occupied territories but to strengthen it.”

“Formally,” Putin’s announcement does not constitute recognition of either the “LNR” or the “DNR” but in fact his recognition of documents issued by those entities gives Russia “right now several opportunities for maneuver,” ranging from its proclaimed status “’until the end of the conflict’” up to full recognition of the two as independent states or candidates for annexation.

The common feature of all these possibilities is that Moscow plans to remain and that is “the main signal” to Kyiv, Portnikov says.

Moreover, Putin’s latest move shows that the blockade isn’t working and that Moscow by allowing people under the control of these entities to leave is reducing the burden it will have to carry to maintain these two statelets.

In addition, the Ukrainian analyst says, this move is “a signal to the West,” one that “reflects the growing disappointment in Putin” in the new US president Moscow had placed so many hopes in. By moving in this way now, “Putin is trying to show” that the West cannot impose any conditions on him that he can’t rapidly respond to by acting on his own.

Putin’s move was taken at the same time as Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s “idiotic” statement that Moscow won’t lift sanctions against the EU until the Minsk accords are fulfilled. This is one more case where the Kremlin wants to achieve “mirror-like” equality with the West.

But at the same time, Portnikov concludes, Putin’s action works to Ukraine’s benefit because it proves again something that ought to be clear to all:

“Moscow is not a mediator but a participant in the conflict and is interested in the creeping annexation of the territory of others.” And that it can only be blocked from doing so by “energetic pressure on this cynical participant.”

In Moscow’s Novaya gazeta, journalists Yuliya Polukhina, Olga Musafirova and Tatyana Vasilchuk summarize the Kremlin’s argument that the recognition of these documents is a “humanitarian” move but add that it has a political component in that it was signed just before a meeting of the Normandy Four in Munich and soon after Trump’s declaration on Crimea.

Putin’s “partial recognition of the sovereignty of the self-proclaimed republics is the kind of asymmetrical response so beloved by Moscow” as it is not “a direct realization of the ‘Ossetian scenario’ … but a clear gesture of political support to the Donbas” and to those in Russia who want to annex that region.

And one should not ignore “the military aspect” of what Putin has done, the three Moscow journalists say. Ukrainian forces have been pressing Russian “LNR” and “DNR” units, and now Moscow will have no difficulties at all in strengthening them with volunteers from Russia who can be given Donetsk passports in any number that may be required. [Editor: These Russian journalists are more than two years behind the times. Passports and military IDs of the so-called “republics” have been issued to Russian regular troops fighting in Ukraine to disguise their presence from the very time the printing presses in Russia started to print such documents.]

That this factor may be especially important now, they write, is suggested by the Friday declaration of “DNR” leader that they are ready to use force to “’return’ control over all the territory of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts,” even though Putin’s press secretary has dismissed this as an “emotional” outburst.

Appended to this article are comments about Putin’s decision from three prominent Moscow writers, Gleb Pavlovsky, Dmitry Oreshkin, and Aleksey Chesnakov. The last simply comes out in support of the Kremlin line on Putin’s actions, but the observations of the other two are worth noting.

Pavlovsky suggests the move is all about putting pressure on the West, but it also means that those in the “LNR” and “DNR” territories will now be able to move to Russia if they are worried about the future in which Kyiv might restore control. As such, it is a signal that under certain circumstances, Moscow is prepared to withdraw.

That mixed message, he argues, is “very typical for the Kremlin.” And thus it may not work as the Russian powers that be hope and expect. It could even blow up in their faces.

Oreshkin says that Putin’s move above all is “connected with [the Kremlin leader’s] disappointment in Trump.” He really expected the new US president would quickly deliver what he appeared to promise during the campaign, a recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and a lifting of sanctions against Moscow.

As long as Putin had such hopes, he “conducted himself” in a more or less careful way. But now he no longer feels the need to do so given that Trump is clearly damaged goods when it comes to Russia and won’t be able to make any positive moves toward the Kremlin without suffering politically at home for doing so.

The Kremlin now is thus animated by a feeling of disappointment and a desire to show that it can do what it wants. At the same time, Oreshkin says, by not taking the ultimate step of recognizing or annexing the two statelets, Putin keeps the possibility of talks alive, something that will play well in some Western capitals.


Related:

 

Edited by: A. N.

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Comments

  1. Alex George says:

    Whatever he does, Putin’s fundamental problem is that his army is not good enough to take out the Ukrainian defenders. It wasn’t good enough in 2014 when the Ukrainian Army and its amateur volunteers were very badly equipped,. and it isn’t good enough now.

    The Ukrainian soldier is highly motivated, unlike his opponents. As a famous kicker of Kremlin a*** once observed:

    “Fortifications, artillery, foreign aid – will be of no value, unless the ordinary soldier knows that it is HE guarding his country”
    – Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim

    1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

      Why write words of defeeted ww2 general for Ukrainian nacionalists? Will bring to them bad luck.

      1. Alex George says:

        Hardly defeated, old boy. His was the only country bordering the Russian S.S.R. that kept its independence. Nobody else managed that, including Ukraine.

        1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

          Germany lost it’s sovereignity after ww2. That l mean bad luck.

          1. Brent says:

            Kiko’s newly hired troll at 55 Savushkina is now up to 14 comments!!! You’re still well short of your 135 per day quota little mindless sheeple….maybe if you team up with another new troll you can do better/

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/77f8402af4747d107df0fdec9ba16c68ff7b82adf46056fa7bf4a3738dc23180.jpg

          2. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

            Who is Savuskina? What quota?

          3. Brent says:

            Germany was the invading nation of others in World War II, much like Russia is today. Ukraine never invaded anyone.

            So you’re suggesting Russia should lose its sovereignty and stop invading other nations might be the smartest thing you’ve uttered so far little troll….

          4. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

            I dont know much. I am here to learn.

          5. Oknemfrod says:

            Mannerheim wasn’t German. He was a Finnish general who commanded the Finnish army that devastated the Stalin’s hordes that invaded Finland in 1939 – *before* WWII.

          6. Alex George says:

            True. Before that he was a General in the Tsarist Army in WWI, recipient of the Order of St George. He was also a protege of Alexei Brusilov, arguably the most gifted Tsarist commander, who would later turn the Red Army into a serious fighting force.

            I love the quote attributed to Kliment Voroshilov when some sycophant congratulated him for “winning” the Winter War:

            “Thank you. We have won just about enough ground to bury our dead.”

          7. Dagwood Bumstead says:

            When Stalin attacked Finland, the Finns joked “So many Russians! Where will we find the room to bury them all?”

          8. Andrew Chmil says:

            Unfortunately — 80% of them were Ukr.

            Why use YOUR OWN troops?
            They WANTED to kill off as many Ukes as they could … ALWAYS!

          9. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            **ANDREW THE STALKER** ……..**CRAZY UKRAINIAN RAPIST**….
            *HATED EVEN BY HIS SON ZENON* … *UKRAINIAN SCUM*!!!

          10. Alex George says:

            In other words, you cannot answer his points, and have nothing to say except random rambling abuse.

            You are just a senile old man

          11. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            If you like **Andrew Chmilewsky** aka **Andrew Chmil** aka **CRAZY RAPIST ** aka **CHILD ABUSER** …aka Galician Swine… by all means, indulge yourself dumb old man by getting between between his legs.

          12. Alex George says:

            And yet again, just more random rambling abuse.

            You have nothing meaningful to say.

          13. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Meh…you are just yakking uncontrolled, all day long, shallow old Khazarian troll.

          14. Alex George says:

            There is no such thing as “Khazarian”, any more than there are “Martians”.

            You just can’t cope with the fact that Russian people have rejected Putin’;s “protection”. They don’t want your fuehrer!

          15. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Meh…you are just yakking uncontrolled, all day long, shallow old Khazarian troll.

          16. Alex George says:

            There is no such thing as “Khazarian”, any more than there are “Martians”.

            Adn yes, you are just yakking. That is because you dare not disagree with me. Not about the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine rejecting Putin, nor about Russians admiring Stalin, nor about Yugoslavia being a miserable failure.

          17. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            As I said, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack of boring, uneducated, time-wasting Ukraps, with no future.

          18. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, and yet again, you show that you dare not contradict me.

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

          19. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR… Did you get already that I do not even read what you write, Mr. Dumbo?

          20. Alex George says:

            Of course you read it. You read every word, and you hate it . But you have no answers.

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

          21. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR… Did you get already that I do not even read nay of your crap…

          22. Alex George says:

            Of course you read it – the fact that you reply shows you are reading it. So you aren’t fooling anyone.

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

          23. Alex George says:

            Of course you read it. You read every word, and you hate it. But you have no answers.

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

            Adn you are unable to deny it. ;o)

          24. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            This old UkrTroll lead the pack of angry and lonely UkrTrolls who crave attention …

          25. Alex George says:

            Ha ha – thank you for giving me attention!

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

            And you are unable to deny it. ;o)

          26. MichaelA says:

            so you admit we are a pack and you are all alone

          27. Alex George says:

            Of course you read it – if you didn’t, you wouldn’t reply.

            You know that there is no such thing as “Khazarian”. Just as you know that the Russian-speaking people of Ukraine reject Putin, and that the Russians admire Stalin, and that Yugoslavia was a miserable failure.

          28. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            According to the ATO press center, at least 16 Ukrainian soldiers were wounded in a firefight with the Donbass People’s Militia.

          29. MichaelA says:

            Whereas many DPR died, and the others ran away

          30. MichaelA says:

            hes right though
            you are scared to argue

          31. Andrew Chmil says:

            Unfortunately, 80% of those troops used as cannon fodder, were Ukrainian.

            They sent MOST of the troops USED “up there” in Finland, from “down there” in Ukraine… Just like the Russians used Ukr. troops as cannon fodder in human wave attacks against the Germans & as “human land mine sweepers”. — With of-course KGB “barrier troops” with machine guns at their backs …. sent into battle, at times WITHOUT UNIFORMS OR WEAPONS!!! — Amazing!
            Figured they would use up German bullets & do more Ukr. genocide… Then they whine that Ukes don’t love Ruski & speak Ukie.

            Hmm…
            Not to mention a renewed “Holodomor #2” (#3 actually) attempt in 1946-47 in Ukraine. Almost unknown.

          32. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            **ANDREW THE EVIL STALKER** ……..**CRAZY UKRAINIAN RAPIST**……..
            *HATED EVEN BY HIS SON ZENON* … * BAD UKRAINIAN SCUM* !!!

          33. Alex George says:

            Is that all you have to say?

            Well I suppose that would be right – you have no idea how to engage in real debate. Facts and reasoned argument are beyond you, so you revert to mere abuse.

            You can’t cope with the fact that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          34. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Copy-paste Ukrap trolls are so boring…. you lead the pack.

          35. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, and in this very post you are copy-pasting! Typical Putin-troll.

            You can’t cope with the fact that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          36. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Yap, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack.

          37. Alex George says:

            Now, now, don’t blame me for your own problems.

            You can’t cope with the fact that your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that his relationship with international organized crime is becoming known. He is nothing but a bandit, and his outcomes show that he is one of the worst leaders that Russia has ever had – a real failure.

          38. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Yap, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack.

          39. Alex George says:

            But why get angry at me? After all, I am not the only one who points these things out to you.

            Your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine – that is simple fact which you cannot deny.

            His relationship with international organized crime is becoming known which is probably far worse for him than anything else.

          40. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Once again, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack of boring, uneducated, time-wasting Ukraps, with no future.

          41. Alex George says:

            Now, now, no need to get angry, my poor desperate friend.

            Your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine – that is simple fact which you cannot deny.

            His relationship with international organized crime is becoming known which is probably far worse for him than anything else.

          42. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Once again, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack of boring, Ukrap time-wasters and triple losers.

          43. Alex George says:

            Not at all – this is all very useful. Anyone reading this will realise that you cannot respond to any of my points, and therefore you accept them. ;o)

            Your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine – that is simple fact which you cannot deny.

            His relationship with international organized crime is becoming known which is probably far worse for him than anything else.

          44. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR… Did you get already that I do not even read any of your crap, old senile UkrTroll?

          45. Alex George says:

            If course you read it – the very fact of your reply shows that.

            And you aren’t the point of this anyway. The object is to demosntrate to anyone who reads it now or later that you cannot respond to any of my points, and therefore you accept them. ;o)

            Your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine – that is simple fact which you cannot deny.

            His relationship with international organized crime is becoming known which is probably far worse for him than anything else.

          46. Alex George says:

            Yes, you are angry, we understand that.

            Your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, and his relationship with international organized crime is becoming known which is probably far worse for him than anything else.

          47. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            … back to retard’s laughter…. “ha ha ha” …in every post…. clear sign of low IQ. Typical Ukrap – ZioTROLL.. yak!!

          48. Alex George says:

            And here we go again – no attempt at argument (because you do not know how to assemble facts or reasoning.

            You just can;t cope with the truth, that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          49. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            … back to retard’s laughter…. “ha ha ha” …in every post…. clear sign of low IQ. Typical Ukrap… Shigh…

          50. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, yet another example – you dare not respond, because you know you will just look even more foolish.

            The truth is hard for you, but cannot be avoided. Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, and Russia as a nation admires Stalin. As do you. ;o)

          51. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, you admit that you cannot cope with this . You make no attempt at argument, because you do not know how to assemble facts or reasoning.

            You just can’t cope with the truth, that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          52. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            … back to retard’s laughter…. “ha ha ha” …in every post…. clear sign of low IQ.

          53. Alex George says:

            Correct – laughter is the proper response to a retard. ;o)

            Ha ha, you admit that you cannot cope with this . You make no attempt at argument, because you do not know how to assemble facts or reasoning.

            You know that Stalin was orthodox, not Catholic, and that Stalinist Russia will surrender Donbass and Crimea!

          54. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Hello .. “Ha ha ha ” Ukrainian Retarded Troll … as you know I never read your posts nor does anyone-with brains. But be persistent and keep trying for attention – that’s all you can do OLDIE!!

          55. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, of course you read them, you poor senile old troll – that is obvious from the way you respond to them!

            You can’t cope with the fact that your dear Fuehrer Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that his relationship with international organized crime is becoming known. He is nothing but a bandit, and his outcomes show that he is one of the worst leaders that Russia has ever had – a real failure.

          56. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Yawn… More boring posts by a boring UkrTroll!

          57. Alex George says:

            LMAO – except you read them, don’t you! Poor senile old troll.

            You just can’t cope with the truth, that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          58. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, yes your laughter is that of a retard, whereas mine is simply amusement at how thick and uneducated you are.

            You can’t cope with the fact that Putin is losing the foolish war that he started with Ukraine, nor that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today – Stalin who was Orthodox by religion before he turned to atheism and fascism.

          59. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Fake Khazarain story… do you think that you NEOCON/Khazarain Mafia took over Ukraine because you installed Waltzman and Groysman as president and VP? How long do you think this will last?

          60. Alex George says:

            There is no such thing as “Khazarains”. Learn to spell and learn your history before debating with adults.

            And yes, what he wrote was the truth – the Kremlin used non-Rusian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR. It is still the same evil organisation as it was then.

            “How long do you think this will last?”

            A lot longer than Russia, on current trends.

          61. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Sure there is…. you copy-paste Ukrap trolls are so boring…. !!

          62. Alex George says:

            Coming from the troll who does little except copy-paste, that is very funny!

            And since you cannot answer my points, here they are again: There is no such thing as “Khazarains”. Learn to spell and learn your history before debating with adults.

            What he wrote was the truth – the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR. It is still the same evil organisation as it was then.

          63. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            As I said, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack.

          64. Alex George says:

            LOL – The senile old troll who complained about others doing cut-and-paste cannot do anything else himself!

            Good to see that you cannot disagree with any of my points. For example, that there is no such thing as “Khazarains”. Learn to spell and learn your history before debating with adults.

            Nor that what others wrote above is the truth – the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR. It is still the same evil organisation as it was then.

          65. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            As I said, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack.

          66. Alex George says:

            Yes but you are admitting that you, who complained about cut-and-paste, do exactly that. The truth is that others don’t, only you.

            You dare not refute any of my arguments because you know that as soon as you put fingers to keyboard, everyone is laughing at you.

            When I point out to you that Stalin was Orthodox, not Catholic, you have to agree – you are afraid to disagree.

            When I point out that Stalin is widely admired in Russia today, you have no choice but to agree.

            When I remind you how you used to be so happy about Trump being elected, because he was going to be so helpful to Russia, you can only hang your head in embarrassment, because nothing like that happened. But that is okay, we all understand… ;o)

          67. Alex George says:

            You didn’t say it, you just cut-and-pasted it. The very thing you complained about others doing – except they don’t, do they?!

            Good to see that you cannot disagree with any of my points. For example, that there is no such thing as “Khazarains”. Learn to spell and learn your history before debating with adults.

            Nor that what others wrote above is the truth – the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR. It is still the same evil organisation as it was then.

          68. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            As I said, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack of time wasting Ukraps with no future.

          69. Alex George says:

            And here we go again – the poor senile old troll cpmplains about cutting and pasting, and then has no answer to others, except to cut and paste! ;o)

            Good to see that you still cannot disagree with any of my points. For example, that there is no such thing as “Khazarains”. Learn to spell and learn your history before debating with adults.

            Nor that what others wrote above is the truth – the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR. It is still the same evil organisation as it was then.

          70. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Did you get already that I do not even read what you write, Mr. Dumbo?

          71. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, you read it alright. Every word. And you hate it, but there is nothing you can do about it .

          72. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR… Did you get already that I do not even read any of the UkrTroll crap…

          73. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, if you really didn’t read it, you wouldn’t bother to write this.

            That’s how i know that you do read it. Every word. And you hate it, but there is nothing you can do about it .

          74. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR…

          75. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, if you really didn’t read it, you wouldn’t bother to write this.

            That’s how i know that you do read it. Every word. And you hate it, but there is nothing you can do about it .

          76. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            This old UkrTroll lead the pack of angry and lonely UkrTrolls who crave attention ….

          77. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, I am getting attention – from you!

            If you really didn’t read it, you wouldn’t bother to write this.

          78. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            Farage is great and so is Vladimir Putin! They gave the Globalist run for their money and both laughed at Old, Senile Ukrap Trolls.

          79. Alex George says:

            LOL So you DO read my posts, don’t you?!

            Now you replace Trump with Farage – seriously what a loser. Farage has accomplished nothing.

            And what has Putin succeeded in ? Only driving Russia into the ground . He couldn’t even get promotion in the KGB!.

          80. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            As I said, with nothing better to do, all day long, you old troll lead the pack.

          81. Alex George says:

            Indeed – nothing better to to do except remind you that there is no such thing as “Khazarains”, that the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR, that it is still the same evil organisation as it was then, that most Russians admire Stalin, and that Stalin was Georgian not Catholic.

            And I do so secure in the knowledge that you dare not answer. ;o)

          82. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha from Khazarian Trolls …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR… [email protected]

          83. Alex George says:

            Nope, sorry, there is no such thing as “Khazarains” or “Khazarians”. You change one letter but stil can’t get it right. Learn your basic history before debating with adults.

            And yes, the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR, it is still the same evil organisation as it was then, and most Russians admire Stalin, who was Georgian not Catholic.

          84. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

            More ha ha ha …. LOW IQ TROLL BEHAVIOR…?

          85. Alex George says:

            I see, you are getting angry again. But that is not my fault .

            I have simply pointed out to you that there is no such thing as “Khazarains” or “Khazarians”. You change one letter but still can’t get it right. Learn your basic history before debating with adults.

            And yes, the Kremlin used non-Russian troops to take the brunt of fighting in the USSR, it is still the same evil organisation as it was then, and most Russians admire Stalin, who was Georgian not Catholic. ;o)

          86. MichaelA says:

            he is right
            you complained about copy paste then that was all you did yourself

          87. Alex George says:

            True one of the two Soviet divisions was Ukrainian.

            It was a typical Kremlin way of operating.

          88. Andrew Chmil says:

            MORE THAN “ONE” UKR. DIVISION — All Ukes were under the command of General Shtern
            btw…

          89. Alex George says:

            At Suomussalmi,. one of the two soviet divisions was majority Ukrainian – sorry, I think we are talking about two different things here. Not to worry.

          90. Andrew Chmil says:

            “At Suomussalmi,. one of the two soviet divisions was majority Ukrainian –
            sorry, I think we are talking about two different things here. Not to
            worry.”

            Ukes were CANNON FODDER — PERIOD!!!
            Just to “burn up” — really it was another GENOCIDE!

            From (LOUSY WIKI — so be careful!) :

            ”Finnish troops having higher mobility due to skis and sleds; in contrast, Soviet heavy equipment confined them to roads.

            Finnish strategy was flexible and often unorthodox, for example,
            targeting Soviet field kitchens, which demoralized Soviet soldiers
            fighting in a sub-Arctic winter.

            Soviet army being poorly equipped, especially with regard to winter camouflage clothing.

            Finnish army had very high morale: they were defending their homes.

            Soviet troops had only political reasons for their attack, and
            consequently lost their will to fight soon despite continual efforts by
            Soviet propagandists.

            Soviet counter-intelligence failures: Finnish troops often
            intercepted the Soviet communications, which relied heavily on standard
            phone lines.[6]

            Finnish troops’ equipment being well suited for warfare in deep snow and freezing temperatures.”

          91. Andrew Chmil says:

            Close…. Mannerheim never did learn to speak Finnish anywhere near at all remotely properly.

            He was (in the main) Swedish, via a way back German ancestry.
            He had balls…

            He (in the “first round”) — 2 distinct war periods with Soviets — agreed to peace terms WHEN the Ruski threatened to UNLEASH some sort of particularly NASTY Asiatics on a Finnish city…. Mannerheim KNEW that particular kind of Asiatic…. so…. he agreed to peace terms.

            Ruski used Ukes & Belorus in the final assault on Germany….
            — they asked the Germans any weapons in the house? — Then left to advance… BUT THE “FOLLOW-UP TROOPS” — were the Asiatics … and the RAPING, MURDERS, etc… at least so the Germans said…

          92. Alex George says:

            What’s Germany go to do with it?

          93. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

            Sorry. I sounded german to me.

          94. Alex George says:

            His ancestors were German but migrated to Sweden in the 17th century, then moved to what is now Finland in the 18th century.

          95. Dagwood Bumstead says:

            Napoleon is supposed to have stated “Moral is to physical as 3 to 1.”

    2. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

      Hello .. “Ha ha ha Retarded Troll”…. as you know I never read your posts but you enjoy reading mine because you can always learn something smart.

      Ukrainian authorities recently found and released a document showing that Yanukovich had made an official request for a Russian intervention in the Ukraine. They wanted to show that he was a traitor. But in the process, they also showed that the last legitimate president of the Ukraine had made a legal request for a Russian intervention which might well mean that, at least in legal terms, any subsequent Russian intervention in the Ukraine would be 100% legal.

      1. Alex George says:

        Ha ha, of course you read my posts – you show that every time you respond to them!

        Yanukovych lied in orde to get elected in 2010 – he said that he was anti-Russian whereas in reality he was receiving huge bribes from the Kremlin.

        Whe he started to act in the interests of Russia rather than Ukraine, protests started. And when he tried to brutally suppress the protests, the whole nation of Ukraine rose up in anger. Yanukovych fled, like the corrupt coward he was, and the people of Ukraine then democratically elected new leaders.

        Russia and its fascist supporters hate this – they want to return Ukraine to its old corruption.

        1. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

          To get you (funny, laughing, senile troll) going is so easy and fun but nothing more beyond that.

          1. Alex George says:

            Nice try, but no, you were foolishly trying to put together a rational argument . And as usual, its easy to shoot you down .

        2. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

          Hello .. “Ha ha ha ” Ukrainian Retarded Troll … as you know I never read your posts nor does anyone-with brains. But be persistent and keep trying for attention – that’s all you can do OLDIE!

          1. Alex George says:

            Ha ha, of course you read them – every word! And you hate them because you can never argue against what is in them.

  2. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

    That Putin recognized passports of the entities will mean he can recogniize the entities. Gvt and nacionalists have a hole in them and can break alliance , which can leave Ukrainians fighting nacionalists and Zaharcenko said he wants to take whole Dombas. I see danger if Ukrainians are not together with nacionalists. Sorry l speak not good Englisch.

    1. Brent says:

      Then why didn’t your beloved Putin not recognize the DPR and LPR when Russia fist invaded, and when they were bigger and included Slovyansk? Three years later and Russia’s army has lost territory against Ukraine defenders. The Russo Nazzi scum hides how many Russian soldiers die fighting Putin’s war and instead the FSB kills off commanders like “Motorola” and “Givi”…. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e517c4c1d23d75565b532f217639f5e77f2b0c06aaf922d299661238c8f3c3e1.jpg

      You are certainly right about one thing….you do not speak “good Anglush”…..

      1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        I dont belove Putin. Many here do. I dont belove him taking Crimea. Why take someone elses land? Now l read that Ukraine wishes to rent out Crimea to Russia for 100 years. This is business and l like it.

    2. Alex George says:

      “That Putin recognized passports of the entities will mean he can recogniize the entities.”

      It does? Putin can recognise the entities any time he wants. He doesn’t need to recognise the passports first.

      This is just smoke and mirrors – probably designed to fool the Russian nationalists who think Putin should annex the territories, when he knows he can’t afford to do that.

      1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        Some said he can’t aford Crimea and Syria. This affordable test he seems to has passed. Further, his next move is to fire about 5 milion Ukrainians and has already made working visas for Ukrainians who are now applying, but our press men say they are going to places where life is hard (Primorje). Firing Ukrainians with no visas he will make his economy good, but what will Ukraine do with 5000000 new men? This is worries me.

        1. Alex George says:

          Since Kremlin supporters like to boast that Ukraine is losing population, its actually the other way around – gaining new population will help Ukraine.

          If it happens. After all, Ukrainians tend to be above average in education – how would Putin replace them?

      2. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        News: the breakaway republic’s have just made a law which forces all Ukrainian companys working in Donbass to pay taxes to Donbas. In case they refuse, their assets will be temporarily nationalized until money is paid in full. I dont know if they will comply.

        1. Alex George says:

          The Ukrainian companies have in practice been paying taxes to the Donbass separatists for the past three years. Many in the Ukrainian government have turned a blind eye to this, or profited from it.

          But now many Ukrainian people (including Maidan activists and veterans of the ATO war) have revolted against this arrangement – hence the blockade. The separatists may as well take the industries, because they will soon collapse anyway. The separatists are going to lose a lot of money.

          1. gmab says:

            I think you meant to say (first paragraph) that UKR companies have been paying taxes to Ukraine not to the separatists. That’s why they are going to nationalize them now. The new law affects Akhmetov’s holdings in Donbas.

          2. Alex George says:

            I was referring to Ukrainian companies in Donbass, including Akhmetov’s which are said to pay “taxes” to the DPR and LPR. With the blockade they can no longer do this, hence why separatists may as well steal their assets, because they will get nothing more from them.

      3. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        Our and Serbian newspapers say that Donbas is been integrated infrastructure into Russia….

        1. Alex George says:

          There’s not much left to integrate. Russians have already taken many of the factories and equipment, physically shifting them to Russia.

          But Putin avoided any real integration, at least up until now. He left the Ukrainian factories operating within the Donbass, and allowed their workers to be paid in Hryvnia and their families to get Urkainian pensions etc. Both sides turned a blind eye to this. But that will soon stop – many Ukrainians are protesting about it, and are blocking any movement of goods between Ukraine and the separatist areas.

          So its up to Putin what he does now. But he never wanted these territories as part of Russia – he wanted them as part of Ukraine, but favourable to Russia.

  3. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

    Maybe he just trying to help citizens who canot live in war?

    1. veth says:

      Yes, thats why nazzi-Russia invaded to kill them

      1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        But l dont believe there is invasion. We will be able see airplanes, tanks, large groops of sooldiers…all we see is military advisers and a few tanks. Its not outright war, they call it hibrid or special.

        1. veth says:

          Full Russian Ukrainian war for 3 years, 5000 Russian troops killed, MH17 downed by Russia,. 700 Russian tanks, 300 GRAD systems, and 80 BUK-systems.
          Today Nazzi-Russia brought new ammo for their troops in their so-called humanitarian convoys. Time for sanctions against fascist-Russia.

    2. Oknemfrod says:

      If he wanted to do that, he could simply stop the war. He is the one who started it and has been waging ever since.

      1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        In our programs, it said that people didnt like the new government so they organized defence. Kiev bombed citys like Sarajevo was bombed by Serbs but they didnt use aviation.

    3. Brent says:

      Then why did Putin invade Ukraine then????

      1. Miroslav Bogunovski says:

        I don’t know. I watched documentarys in the past that people didn’t like the new government and self organized. Kiev then bombed them sities. Maybe he wants to help….

  4. veth says:

    Ukraine must invade Donbass and kill the Russian troops.

  5. Dirk Smith says:

    Crush Muscovy.

  6. zorbatheturk says:

    RuSSians do not need a visa to go to hell.

  7. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

    There is a strong feeling in Russia that Poroshenko is powerless and that the Ukronazi crazies are up to no good. Clearly, *nobody* in the Ukronazis elites has any intention of actually implementing the Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 agreements. That, by the way, might be a dangerous approach for a number of reasons:

    1. MichaelA says:

      russia has never implemented minsk
      it violated the cease fire from the start
      russians know that
      nothing dangerous about ukraine telling weak russia to go jump

      1. Andrew Chimilewsky's Daddy! says:

        Russia is NOT the part of the Minsk Agreement. meh… ukrap.

        1. MichaelA says:

          russia signed the minsk agreement
          you really dont know much

  8. MichaelA says:

    the dnr and lnr are collapsing
    so is putins russia