Polish ruling party: Ukraine’s version of historical memory of Volyn is “a problem”

Michal Dworczyk presenting the letter at the Embassy of Poland in Ukraine, Kyiv, 20 June 2016. Screenshot from YouTube 

History, International, More, Politics, Ukraine

The Poles say they believe in sincerity of Ukraine’s apologies, but Ukraine’s version of historical memory of Volyn is “a problem.”

In the early June Ukraine’s political and religious leaders addressed the Polish society in an open letter of “repentance and forgiveness.” They called for a reunion of two nations and mutual support in fighting the common enemy (Kremlin) instead of fighting over painful and difficult common past.

The letter, however, was accepted by many Poles with skepticism and criticism. Many commentators took the letter as Ukraine’s attempt to overwrite history with own narrative, in which the OUN-UPA members are considered heroes, and massacres against Polish civilians are called a “Polish-Ukrainian war.” Furthermore, they took this repentance letter as “blackmail” and “manipulation,” stating that Ukraine “just needs Polish support.”

“For the Poles, this is unacceptable. This is a statement that demands us to acknowledge a just and dignified struggle of Ukrainians for sovereignty. […] It means acknowledging activities of OUN and UPA during the war as [a fight – ed.] for independence, […] that their methods were just and appropriate. This is unacceptable, neither from the moral viewpoint nor from the point of view of the victims’ dignity,” Ewa Siemaszko, who studies the Volyn tragedy, commented at #dziejesienazywo program.

Jerzy Haczynski, editor of the foreign department of Rzeczpospolita, stated that Ukraine apologized too little. Phrases […] such as “killing of the innocent has no justification” is definitely too little. Especially when in Ukraine cult of UPA is flourishing at its best (streets of Kyiv have just been named after key responsible people for the Volyn genocide, Roman Shukhevych and Stepan Bandera)”.

A positive response came a week later when Polish Church leaders called for mercy and unity that should lead to the dialogue. Lublin Metropolitan Archbishop Stanislav Budziak and Przemysl and Warsaw Metropolitan Archbishop of the Greek Catholic Church Yevheniy Popovych emphasized that the historical questions belong to historians, while the Christians should be able to forgive each other.

The official response from Polish ruling “Law and Justice” party came almost three weeks later. And their letter wasn’t quite what Ukraine might have expected.

“We fully acknowledge not only the value of current Ukraine’s statehood but also Ukraine’s separate point of view on its fight for independence. We acknowledge as proper and understandable Ukraine’s many centuries-long struggles for the right to free cultural and state development. Ukraine’s, as well as Poland’s setbacks in the fight for independence, had dramatic consequences not only for both of our nations but also for the whole Europe,” the beginning of the letter “To Ukrainian friends” states.

On 20 June, Michal Dworczyk, Poland’s MP and chief of the parliamentary Commission of Contacts with the Poles Who Live Abroad read out loud Polish response in Kyiv. The letter was signed by over 200 members of the ruling party. The full text of the letter was published by Ukrainian news portal Espreso.TV.



The signatories emphasize further, that Ukraine and Poland do not share same historical memory and Ukraine’s current attitude towards “perpetrators of the genocide against the Poles” during World War II is a “problem.” “In Poland, on the state level, we do not glorify people with blood of innocent civilians on their hands,” the letter says.


The authors state that despite the heroism of the fight against imposed Soviet rule, they will not share glorification of actions aimed at unarmed women and children, as well as they won’t accept naming those events as “Polish-Ukrainian war.” They emphasize that they can’t stay indifferent to the version of historical past that Ukraine chooses, even though they believe in the sincerity of Ukraine’s apologies.

In the nearest days, the letter informs, the Polish parliament will commemorate the victims of Ukrainian nationalists in Volyn and former Polish territories. “We want to explicitly point out, dispelling your fears expressed in the letter, that this is not a type of an unbalanced political declaration, but only a fair tribute paid to the murdered victims.”

The authors of the letter reminded that Poland stood with Ukraine side by side helping to oppose Kremlin’s aggression and assured in their future support. They also stressed the “fundamentals of European civilization, to which both nations belong,” and which “are based on Christian values, which turn remembering victims into an ethical duty.” Thus, “Law and Justice” signatories call that Poland, together with Ukraine, put crosses on the graves of each victim, independently of nationality or territory where it is located.

Finally, the authors of the letter promise not to take actions that may erect a wall of misunderstanding between the two nations, and warn: “We cannot accept ideology and actions that allow murder of innocent civilians, even in the name of the highest goals, to which undoubtedly fight for state independence belongs.”


Edited by: Alya Shandra

Source: Espreso.TV

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  1. Avatar Ivan Petryshyn says:

    1. not a single Ukrainian who was born after 1945 has anything to do with the tragedy. so, they are not at fault.
    2. Poles should recollect: a/ persecution of Ukrainians during the ruling years of Poland in Ukraine; b/ discrimination of those who didn’t know Polish; c/ the historical massacres of Ukrainians by Poles; d/ the educationally “promoted” hatred of Ukrainians by Poles.
    3. Ukrainians do not consider Poles or all Poles their enemies, so, Poles should not do that either.
    4. it would be beneficial for the two Slavic Nations to unite in one State and to construct instead of to ruin or hate!

    1. Avatar Turtler says:

      Bingo, my opinion exactly (beyond maybe the one state thing).

      Remembering the past accurately is important. But the past is still the past and corruption of blood is a heinous concept.

  2. Avatar Michal says:

    These were not massacres, but deliberately planned genocide of civilian people on a large scale.

    1. Avatar Michal says:

      I was talking about Ukrainians who are responsible for this genocide.

      1. Avatar Michal says:

        Take a look at the pictures. There are in the internet, just google it.

    2. Avatar Turtler says:

      “What thos Poles were doing to Ukrainians was indeed a slow genocide!”

      In the 16th and 17th centuries, sure. And maybe in the bitter fighting around Lviv after WWI.

      But by and large no. The interwar Polish government committed heinous crimes and was thoroughly racist and reaching, but by and large it did not support genocide.

      “Like what the Jews are doing now to the Palestinians!”

      Are you seriously this STUPID?

      The Palestinian Arab population has been consistently growing. That isn’t a “slow genocide”, it isn’t a genocide at all. And if the Israelis were even slightly inclined towards genocide, the PLO would have been erased after 1967.

      “And they were going to accelerate that GENOCIDE as per Roman Dmowski. the Polish Foreign Minister.”

      Except Dmowski and his allies were overthrown in a coup by Pilsudski and his allies, and then marginalized from power. The Polish government throughout the interwar period was a dictatorship run by Dmowski’s ENEMIES, and while they were racist and bigoted aplenty they were not even remotely close to as virulent as him.

      As even a cursory study of Polish history shows.

      “No “genocide” — merely repelling thieving invaders & oppressors on Ukrainian land.

      Are you taking a Polish interpretation?”

      Dude, I’ve wargamed as the UPA, and that included doing some research.

      One of the diaries discussed the execution of a Polish family for their father being a (Nazi in this case) collaborator, including tiny preteen children.

      Will you kindly explain how a 5 year old girl is a thieving invader and oppressor?

      And will you kindly explain how a first hand primary account by a Ukrainian Insurgent Army fighter is a “Polish interpretation”?

      1. Avatar Andrew says:

        ME: “What thos Poles were doing to Ukrainians was indeed a slow genocide!”

        YOU; “In the 16th and 17th centuries, sure. And maybe in the bitter fighting around Lviv after WWI.”

        Try interwar period — the **COLONIZATION** & POPULATION DISPLACEMENT!!!

        MORON!!! From NO POLAKS IN VOLYN TO 16% — MOST IMPRESSIVE!!! Is it not?

        “But by and large no. The interwar Polish government committed heinous
        crimes and was thoroughly racist and reaching, but by and large it did
        not support genocide.”

        Stealing or “CONFISCATING” Ukrainian land from Ukrainians was a death sentence in a peasant economy — RIGHT STUPID?
        Polaks “confiscated” Ukr. church lands & churches as well ….

        “Except Dmowski and his allies were overthrown in a coup by Pilsudski and
        his allies, and then marginalized from power. The Polish government
        throughout the interwar period was a dictatorship run by Dmowski’s
        ENEMIES, and while they were racist and bigoted aplenty they were not
        even remotely close to as virulent as him.”

        VERY IGNORANT!!!! — Congratulations! 😉

        As they say: “close enough in horseshoes!” — (see Ukr. churches above & ALSO FORCED RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS — closing Ukr. schools etc. BS — From a

        —Ukr. perspective — NO DIFFERENCE IN THE SLIGHTEST from Dmovski!!!

        “Will you kindly explain how a 5 year old girl is a thieving invader and oppressor?”

        AFTER YOU —
        …. right?

        ALSO THE KOLM MASSACRE — was done by Polak Home Army — OBVIOUSLY from Polak Gov. in London authorization — as it was a large operation… In Lviv, Polak Home Army received instructions (FROM LONDON – GOV. IN EXILE) to plan to “remove” (???) 1.5 million Ukr. FROM UKR LAND…

        A la Dmovski-like — was it not?

        Ukr. had to be “removed” — Polaks to “colonize” …. Hmm…

        Palestinians I won’t go into… no time right now… not often — AS YOU SEE — in this account. You are wrong there as well…. HAVING “SEWAGE WATER” to “drink” — WATER STOLEN — ILLEGAL BLOCKADE — NOT BEING ALLOWED TO FISH OFF YOUR OWN COAST (PROTEIN!!!) OR IMPORT MEDICINE etc.. etc… SOUNDS LIKE “SLOW GENOCIDE” TO ME YOU EVIL POLAK DUM @SS !!!

        Ukrainians were the Palestinians of their day, you RACIST, **IGNORANT** SWINE!

        Look up Ukraine a concise encyclopedia – it’s on the net…
        I have excerpts of “HEROIC POLAK HOME ARMY HEROES” — writing of RAPING women & LITTLE GIRLS…. SICK!!! POLAK —ROMAN CATHOLIC— FILTH!!!

        NOT POLAK TURF!!! — Ukie turf!!!

        CAUSE & EFFECT! — I have noticed Polaks have a DEEP PROBLEM WITH SUCH… Hmm… & have nice day! — You ILLOGICAL, *RACIST* & “most special & entitled” UNREAD moron…. Try reading as opposed to “war gaming”…. Polaks PROVOKED the German attack by treating (SAVAGELY) the German volksgennosen (MURDERS) and the VERY USUAL Polak raping….. like they did Ukr… Only thing … the Germans weren’t divided by the Poles & Ruski like the Ukr. were …. So they DID something about it … the Polaks had a lot of HORSES!!!! :)) That will show those evil Germans!!! — MORONS!!

        1. Avatar Alex George says:

          Ah Andrew the Putin troll strikes again – always keen to denigrate those who support Ukraine, and to try to get Ukrainians and Poles fighting each other… Directly from the Kremlin playbook

      2. Avatar Andrew says:

        “In the 16th and 17th centuries, sure. And maybe in the bitter fighting around Lviv after WWI. But by and large no. The interwar Polish government committed heinous
        crimes and was thoroughly racist and reaching, but by and large it did
        not support genocide.”

        BY AND LARGE YOU ARE VERY “UNSTUDIED” — to be polite about it…
        Cretin!!! — & the sad thing is — you BELIEVE your own BS!!!

        READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!!! — I gave you a SOURCE!!!

        But you won’t read it! 🙂 I KNOW this already!

        Even sh*tty (very!) Wiki has more data than you!!!!

        1. Avatar Turtler says:

          Well, took you damn long enough to do anything. I posted this three months ago and you’re just getting back to me now? I’m not sure whether to praise your commitment to replying or chide you for your ignorance. Especially since you couldn’t even if it in your own sources.

          “BY AND LARGE YOU ARE VERY “UNSTUDIED” — to be polite about it… Cretin!!! ”

          Firstly: stop bull$hitting. You’re not being polite about anything, least of all the victims of these terrible wars. So the least measure of politeness the world can ask of you is that you don’t pretend to be being polite.

          Secondly: If that is true and I- someone who has wargamed for years and read literally hundreds of sources about it-, is unstudied, then how unstudied must you be?

          “— & the sad thing is — you BELIEVE your own BS!!!”

          And that is the problem. Because it isn’t my own BS.

          It’s Stephan Bandera’s BS, Josef Pilsudski’s BS, Ivano Kolomiets’ BS, and Reinhard Gehlen’s BS, and I could go on.

          I believe them because they actually were alive at the time and had to know something about it. If what I said is BS, it is their BS, not mine. Unlike yours.


          Indeed, it is.

          That is why I know better than you.

          “— I gave you a SOURCE!!!”

          No, you gave me a single name and apparently expected me to research on my own.

          The problem is I already had researched that man, and so I KNEW he was Pilsudski’s old political rival who had been CAST OUT OF POWER in 1926 and had absolutely no effect on Polish government policy afterwards. Making your attempts to insinuate something about the whole Polish Republic as a whole after WWI by citing him FREAKING STUPID..

          Do you really want me to cite sources testifying to how and why it happened in the May Coup? Or do you think Pilsudski’s overthrow of the government is another bit of “BS” that never happened?

          “But you won’t read it! 🙂 I KNOW this already!”

          In that case, you simply know wrong.

          Because I read “it.” The problem is you didn’t give anything- any book titles, any speeches, or any links- TO read in your post beyond that. Which pales in comparison to my prior research about that man and how he was overthrown.

          “Even sh*tty (very!) Wiki has more data than you!!!!”

          Oh, I can believe it.

          But what is more important is that I have vastly more data- and more CORRECT data- than you do.

          “Try interwar period — the **COLONIZATION** & POPULATION DISPLACEMENT!!!”

          True enough.

          But that was not understood as GENOCIDE, and neither was Commonwealth policy.

          If you want to understand the meaning of the term Genocide, try looking up the legal definition for it. Or the incidents that spawned the coining of that word, the Ottoman Turkish mass murders of the empire’s ethnic and religious minorities.

          Not merely government officials being racist douches.


          Oh, all caps.

          How cute.

          Apparently you think because you left the CAPSLOCK KEY ON it must be very important.

          “From NO POLAKS IN VOLYN TO 16% — MOST IMPRESSIVE!!! Is it not?”

          It would be more impressive (not most impressive, compare to the genocidal Russian repopulation of Crimea or Chinese settlement of Inner Asia) if it were true.

          But it’s not.

          Volyn had been part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for over 200 years.

          In your previous post, you claimed that “even s*tty Wikipedia” has more data than me. I actually agree with reservations. So let’s look at what Wikipedia says about the Russian census.

          “In 1897, the population amounted to 2,989,482 people (41.7 per square kilometer). It consisted of 73.7 percent East Slavs (predominantly Ukrainians), 13.2 percent Jews, 6.2 percent Poles, and 5.7 percent Germans.”

          So in other words, even more than a CENTURY after the final partitions of Poland and the setting of the long Russian night over Ukraine and most of Poland, complete with heavy handed Russification, at least 6.2% of the population was still Polish.

          More than a third of what had happened. So while the post-WWI jump to 19% or so was still a massive jump and emblematic of Polish bigotry and attempts to force Ukrainians to assimilate, it was not coming from nowhere. It was building off of a centuries old set of communities that had been in the region for literally centuries.

          I realize that stands in the way of attempts to portray the entire Polish population of the region as recent invaders or carpetbaggers that came in after the Polish annexation of the area in 1920 (as if murdering a six year old girl would somehow become just if her family lived only for a decade or two rather than a century or more), but it doesn’t work.

          “Stealing or “CONFISCATING” Ukrainian land from Ukrainians was a death sentence in a peasant economy — RIGHT STUPID?”

          WRONG, Stupid.

          I don’t know where you’re getting your ideas, but if confiscating Ukrainian land was a death sentence in a peasant economy most of Ukraine (and elsewhere) would have starved to death after Moscow abolished the very concept of free peasants in the 17th century and basically forced everybody to work for nobles (which was quite similar to what the Commonwealth did during its’ occupation of Left Bank Ukraine, forcing the inhabitants to answer to occupying Polish nobles or to become “registered Cossacks” operating as mercenaries for them).

          But it didn’t happen. Because while confiscation of land sucked and having the yoke of foreign occupation placed on your neck is never a pleasant experience, most had ways of surviving, even if it meant being forced to work for the occupiers.

          There’s a REASON why the Holodomor was exceptional, and it was not merely because another foreign despot occupied Ukraine.

          “Polaks “confiscated” Ukr. church lands & churches as well ….”

          Quite true and I make no apologies for that, it was cruel, oppressive, and bigoted. However, it was not a “death sentence” like you want to pretend it is, especially since church lands were never as expansive in Ukraine as they were elsewhere- like in, say, Hungary and England- and not vital for food production.

          It was a shameless land and cash grab, but it was not an attempt to starve the entire region.

          “WRONG!!!! VERY IGNORANT!!!! — Congratulations! ;)”

          Well, we’ve hit the bottom of the barrel.

          Apparently dumbarse Andrew here thinks that Pildsudski’s 1926 coup never happened.


          To which I simply say: I have no words.

          For someone who yaps so heavily about how little data I have, you would think you would know this kind of stuff.

          “As they say: “close enough in horseshoes!””

          As I say: Bull$hat.

          If you want to quote a Polish politician as a source for Polish policy throughout the whole interbellum period, you don’t get to ignore the fact that his ideological and political enemies THEN seized power after a couple of years and forced his ENTIRE FACTION out of government.

          “— (see Ukr. churches above & ALSO FORCED RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS –”

          You’ve got the wrong century. I don’t doubt there was discrimination of Eastern Orthodox Christians (and also Greek Catholics), but forced conversions was a 17th and 18th century policy.

          “closing Ukr. schools etc.”

          The main spat of closings was in 1924 again, before the coup. And after 1935- guess what- a lot of those schools opened back up.

          That does not make the interwar Polish government a symbol of tolerance or freedom. IT NEVER WAS AND I KNOW THAT EVEN BETTER THAN YOU. But it does mean that your attempt to claim there was No Difference is nonsense.

          “—Ukr. perspective — NO DIFFERENCE IN THE SLIGHTEST from Dmovski!!!”

          Then why did the Ukrainian political parties in Poland sign an agreement with Pilsudski’s successors in 1935 when they Never Even Tried It with Dmmie?


          “AFTER YOU — kindly explain — the 6 MONTH UKRAINIAN BABY GIRL –IN UKRAINE– KILLED BY THE “BRAVE” — “POLAK HOME ARMY” in Kholm? ”

          Which one?

          And frankly, the explanation is that every underground organization- especially resistance groups- contains douchebags, and I do not hold that against it. The fact that that includes the Polish Home Army is not that.

          The fact of the matter, however, is that the Polish Home Army never conducted concentrated campaigns of genocide killing tens of thousands of people for the crime of speaking the wrong language. Even groups scummy enough to honestly want to do that- like the Military Lizard Union- never got the opportunity because they were wrapped up dealing with the Wehrmacht and Communist guerillas in the heartland of Poland, while in contrast the collapse of Army Group Center in the East opened a power vacuum that allowed the UPA to concentrate its’ efforts on Volyn.

          That’s the difference between a band of douchebags operating on their own and official policy by the chain of command at large.

          So I’ve explained it. Now are you going to stop cowardly dodging the issue and answer it?

          “ALSO THE KOLM MASSACRE — was done by Polak Home Army — OBVIOUSLY from Polak Gov. in London authorization — as it was a large operation… ”

          Balderdash. Where is your proof? And no, the fabricated information we KNOW Shukhevych put forward to claim the Polish Home Army committed more atrocities than it did does not count.

          Especially since we KNOW at this time that the Polish Home Army was preparing for Operation Tempest, the generalized rising against the German occupation in the Polish heartland, involving the vast majority of the Polish Home Army’s cells and essentially all its’ munitions and supplies.

          The idea that they could somehow find time in this busy schedule for an operation on this scale is Nonsense.

          “In Lviv, Polak Home Army received instructions (FROM
          LONDON – GOV. IN EXILE) to plan to “remove” (???) 1.5 million Ukr. FROM UKR LAND…”

          And how the heck were they supposed to do that when the number of targets far exceeded the BULLETS they had, and a general rising that would consume those bullets was just months away and everybody knew it?

          It’s not like the post war period, where Polish and Soviet Communists could just go around in plain sight and exile or kill people willy nilly, this would supposedly involve Guerilla Groups of a few thousand at Most coming out of the woodwork to enact a Final Solution that was well beyond the logistics of any rebellious ethnic cleansing in WWII short of the JANL’s eradication of Dalmatian Italians, which they carried out late in the war after becoming a regular military.

          Have you ever looked at a freaking timeline or asked yourself “Ok, how is this supposed to go? How would London have expected these dozen or so groups of 2,000 guys to exterminate or deport over a million people? And WHY would they do this at the expense of fighting the more pressing threats of the German military and the Soviet front guard?”

          (It’s also the reason why the Volyn massacres committed by the UPA were so late in the war, because the UPA wasn’t as dumb as you are and prioritized fighting the actual armed forces of their enemies rather than going after civilians. It was only the opportunities caused by the general collapse of the German Eastern Front and the resulting power vacuum that let them spare enough to do it.)

          “A la Dmovski-like — was it not?”

          No, because while Dmowski was a thorough scumbag he and his heirs weren’t interested in sending the military to kill or deport over a million people. He “merely” wanted to force them to become Polish by suppressing their culture and diluting them with favored status for the local Polish communities and new colonization.

          But then you should know this. After all, HE AND HIS FOLLOWERS HAD POWER BETWEEN 1919 AND 1926, and we STILL DON’T SEE anything like this.

          We certainly see Polish bigotry, thuggery, and cultural oppression that involved book burnings, school closings, people being beaten up, and supposedly a dozen or so people killed. But we do NOT SEE the Holodomor like deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Poland.

          “Palestinians I won’t go into… no time right now…”

          I don’t believe you, especially since you tried to do it just below.

          Of course you have the time. You had the time to make two temperamental posts that should have been a single one. You just don’t have it.

          “AS YOU SEE — in this account. You are wrong there as well…. ”

          Says the moron who makes grandiose claims without a single farqing source, and thinks there was no Polish population in Volyn whatsoever before the Second Polish Republic.

          “HAVING “SEWAGE WATER” to “drink” — ”

          I hardly believe that, given the amount of foreign aid they get. But on the case it is:

          Whose fault is it?

          That would be Hamas and Fatah. If they misuse the very generous foreign aid that they have been given and do not invest in their own people, the onus is ON THEM.

          “WATER STOLEN ”

          Bull$hit. As you would know if you ever had to wargame in the region or observe how it is. The fact is the water is not being stolen, because the water sources would NOT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED without the much-villified Israels. After all, they still haven’t been in the West Bank or Gaza in spite of generous aid.


          Codswallop. have you even studied the blockade at all?

          I fully believe the Israelis have the right to do the things you mention to Gaza, because Gaza is run by Neo-Fascist Islamists who have declared a genocidal hatred of all Jews. But the fact is the Israelis do not in fact do most of this.

          The fact is that no nation is obliged to suffer the existence of a terrorist organization (which is what Hamas is) dedicated to its’ extermination. It owes Hamas Nothing, except perhaps a swift destruction. It has not chosen to exercise that in what I can only call a monumental example of restraint in the face of evil and perhaps concern for its’ servicepeople and the Palestinian Arabs, but that does not change the fact.

          If Hamas wants to complain about the “blockade”, it needs to stop acting like an armed terrorist group fighting a conflict. Otherwise it has as much right to biotch as the LTTE did.


          Yes, such a slow genocide it is going in REVERSE.


          It is times like this that I am made to think of this brilliant article.


          “YOU EVIL POLAK DUM @SS !!!”

          But I’m not a “Polak.”

          I’m not Polish, and I am not descended from any Polaks.

          So who’s the dumb arse here?

          “Ukrainians were the Palestinians of their day, you RACIST, **IGNORANT** SWINE!”

          No they weren’t.

          Because Ukrainians died by their millions after being starved in the Holodomor.


          They ALSO never tried to invade and exterminate Russia, like the “Palestinian” authority and the Arab League tried to do to Israel in 1948.

          “Look up Ukraine a concise encyclopedia – it’s on the net…”

          I have.

          ” I have excerpts of “HEROIC POLAK HOME ARMY HEROES” — writing of RAPING women & LITTLE GIRLS…. SICK!!! POLAK —ROMAN CATHOLIC— FILTH!!!”

          Cute. Because apparently racist bigotry is supposed to convince people.

          (And for the record moron, plenty of members of the UPA were Roman Catholics and Greek Catholics too. Heck, a number of them were also Jews, in the face of stupid anti-Ukrainian propaganda today. Are they somehow bad too?0

          And if you have these excerpts, why don’t you freaking post them?

          After all, I can.

          “CAUSE & EFFECT! — I have noticed Polaks have a DEEP PROBLEM WITH SUCH… ”

          And I have noticed you’re a racist idiot who has an even bigger problem with cause and effect, considering you’ve tried to blame Dmowski’s policies for things that happened after his political party and acolytes were thrown from power.

          “Hmm… & have nice day! ”

          I intend to.

          “— You ILLOGICAL, *RACIST* & “most special & entitled” UNREAD moron…. ”

          Pot Kettle Black.

          “Try reading as opposed to “war gaming”.”

          What do you think reading involves, dumbarse?

          In order to wargame a given period I would consider it light reading if I had to go through “only” five books and four primary source reports.

          Usually- and especially for campaigns like the UPA from 1941 to 1950 involving a broad swath of time and space against myriad enemies- I had to do far more.

          “… Polaks PROVOKED the German attack by treating (SAVAGELY) the German volksgennosen”


          So in addition to everything else you’re an outright Hitler apologist. Greaaaaat.

          The problem with this utter BS is that it does not add up. Hitler invaded vast numbers of places that were nowhere near as bigoted as even the Second Polish Republic. And he did not time his invasions because of the supposed oppression of the ethnic Germans abroad. In particular, he GLADLY cooperated with the Poles in order to have the Danzig chapter of the NSDAP take control over the city state before WWII started.

          He faced no problems collaborating with the Poles to chop Czechoslovakia and Lithuania up using the exact same pretexts he would later use against Poland. For the same reason he had no problem spending most of his reign allied to the Soviet Union to chop up Eastern and Central Europe before turning on them.

          That does not make the Polish Second Republic innocent. It was a bigoted, racist, authoritarian dictatorship. But it was not a genocidal totalitarian dictatorship, which is what the NSDAP and Soviet Union were.

          And furthermore: if the invasion of Poland was REALLY about the oppression and supposed mass murder and killings of ethnic Germans, why did Hitler HAVE TO CREATE A FALSE FLAG INCIDENT in which he claimed that the Polish army had attacked Glenwitz (when in reality it was his own SS) in order to justify it?


          “the Polaks had a lot of HORSES!!!! :)) ”

          Yeah, and the Soviet Union and Germany had even more horses than Poland did. They needed it for their transportation, primarily.

          But hey, it doesn’t fit with the myth of ignoramuses such as yourself, so it must not exist!

          1. Avatar Alex Prokop says:

            Poland is Ukraine’s greatest friend. We share and respect this friendship. We also share centuries of History both good and bad. What happened in Western Ukraine during WW2 was ethnic tension that in fact has been there perhaps for centuries. Ukrainians see ethnic conflict as a part of a much bigger spectrum of events. While the Polish side seems to simply consider it a one sided picture, with them as the victims and Ukrainians as the perpetrators. There is no information on what set off the brutal conflict, many Poles think that it was the OUN-UPA who suddenly started massacring the Poles, and what the Poles did after hand was simply revenge. Which would be an argument IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE TO THIS. As i stated this ethnic conflict may have been building up for centuries. After the fall of the Kingdom of Halych-Volyna Poland invaded and annexed Ukrainian lands in what came to be centuries of domination of Western Ukraine. There were many ethnic conflicts in the past among the local population the Rusyns(medievil Ukrainains) and Poles. This was mainly because Poland invaded their lands and had put themselves in positions of total power. They banned the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, replacing it with a Catholic one. They put a ban on Ukrainian language printing, writing and schooling. They made sure no Ukrainians held positions of social status or wealth. This is what invaders do and this caused considerable tension as one would imagine. There were periods when the Poles lessened their campaign against Ukrainians, which some Orthodox Churches being allowed to open in Lviv, as well as the bans on the Ukrainian language were relaxed. These were only temporary measures, as Polish Kings come and gone, they followed with their usual camping of oppression against the local ethnic population. In 1939 the Polish Government escaped to London and formed a Government In Exile. This Government had a considerable underground army under its control the Armija Krajowa. The misdeed on their part is that instead on focus on De-occupying main land Poland they spent their efforts on re-attaining Ukrainian lands. When Ukrainian patriots formed the OUN and UPA, one of their key doctrines was that Ukraine be free of all invaders and occupiers. As Poland was a key occupier this included them. Conflict was inevitable, but it is very possible that they were matched against one another by a 3rd party. Either by the Soviets or the Germans. It is also very possible that it was the Polish Units who began massacring Ukrainians, and Ukrainian partisans in reaction did the same. Sadly concrete facts in this ethnic conflict are hard to come by, the fact is we dont know what exactly happened, and why exactly it happened. The point is Ukrainians are truly apologetic, and our compassion is sincere to our Polish brothers. Both sides share this sadness that so many innocent people were murdered over god knows what. The problem is that while Ukrainians have admitted their mistakes and publicly apologized, apologies from the Polish side were no where to be found. They refuse to admit that Poland occupied and oppressed Ukrainians right up until WW2. That and as well their one sided portrayal of the ethnic conflict has caused more conflict between Poland and Ukraine. When ever i argue with the Poles about this i apologize to them, and say this was a strategy that should have never happened and that we must find more information and facts on what actually happened. Most simply barrage me with insults, call me a Bandera nazi and what not. When i mention that Poland was on Ukrainian lands, not Polish. That in the past 400 years Poland has killed an uncountable number of Ukrainians, oppressed our language, culture, religion, traditions right up until ww2. They began to change topic and in fact write complete lies about how those lands were apparently Polish. My point is Ukrainians of the two sides are the ones that are apologetic and offer a warm hand of friendship and compassion to the Poles. This has been largely accepted by our Polish friends, but they refuse to admit to what may have caused this tragedy. Their occupation of Ukraine, and oppression of Ukrainians.

  3. Avatar Tony says:

    It is understandable that a single letter would not be enough, that is the nature of asking for forgiveness, it is difficult to get not guaranteed that it will ever be fully granted.
    The best we can do in this case is engage in a reconciliation process. It is important to keep offering repentance and also to build mutual understanding about this issue and discuss how we can move forward.

    The previous article:

    Raises some relevant points that need to be considered.
    If one thinks about it, the OUN/UPA must have had some reason for what they did, its not like they just wanted to kill people for fun. Obviously such events are seen/perceived differently by different people. If we truly want reconciliation then we cannot simply insist that our view is the right one, instead we need to see each others perspectives, try to understand them while remembering that this is all said while admitting error and in the spirit of repentance, so we should try to find common ground or a way forward.

    In this case the main reason stated in that article for OUN/UPA actions was to liberate Volyn from occupiers. Polish forces viewed Volyn as theirs and incited occupying [email protected] forces against Ukrainian civilians, in one case that article mentions hundreds killed. I’m guessing Ukraine’s views of Polish rule as colonialism also has something to do with it.

  4. Avatar Kruton says:

    Unite or perish.

  5. Avatar freedom fighter says:

    as soon as poland sees ukraine on it’s back, and if things are going the way they are it’s going to happen in some near future as sad as it is, it will surely use that towards their advantage, poland is not ur friend, poland is not russias’ friend, u have to get that though ur thick skulls sooner or later, the sooner the better.

  6. Avatar freedom fighter says:

    do u know what a polish politologist said by accident on russian tv one time? i bet u wont guess till i tell u so here it is……..and there is a video if u have any doubt on it.
    he said that basically ukrainians are poland’s ni**ers!!! not a joke……that’s how they
    really really look at u…….so stop kissing up to them.

  7. Avatar Alex Prokop says:

    Ukrainians see the Volyn tragedy as part of a much bigger spectrum of events. It is not clear what set off these events, weather it was the Ukrainian side which attacked first or the Polish side. We do know however that the Poles back in those days still followed an imperial ideology, especially when it came to Ukraine and Ukrainians. The culture, traditions and even religion of Ukraine were all oppressed under Polish rule. Western Ukraine, the Kingdom of Halych Volyna which existed before the Polish annexation of its lands were largely Christian Orthodox, this changed as most of Ukraine is now Catholic, a big part of Polish influence. In 1939 the Polish Government left for London, and formed the Polish Government In Exile, which had an underground Armija Krajowa under its control. Instead of focusing on De-occupying mainland Poland they focused on re-attaining Ukrainian lands. We Ukrainians share deep sadness with our Polish brothers over what happened, we admit that terrible acts were committed BY BOTH SIDES. We are apologetic and are truly sincere in our compassion towards the Poles. We admit that our side has killed many innocent Poles, but we also know that the Poles killed many innocent Ukrainians as well. The Polish side seems to be very keen on portraying the situation as one sided, that they were the victims and Ukrainians as perpetrators. All we want, is a similiar apology form our Polish counter parts, and admission that Poland invaded and annexed ethnic Ukrainian lands. The Poland oppressed and discriminated against Ukrainians, their culture, traditions. Banned our language, put down our religion over the course of centuries which continued well into WW2. These are the chain of events that caused this conflict in Western Ukraine.

    1. Avatar Andrew Chmile says:

      During WW2 — the poles ATTEMPTED to “keep things as they were” BEFORE THE WAR.

      Ukrainians wanted their churches, schools open, a free Ukrainian press etc..



  8. Avatar Alex Prokop says:

    Indeed. Us Ukrainians have publicly apologized to our Polish counter parts. We admitted many things for the sake of friendship and understanding. While the Polish side accepted our apologies, their own admissions were no where to be found. This whole conflict in my opinion was caused by tension that has been building up for centuries. Poland occupied and oppressed Ukrainian for centuries. Oppressed our Orthodox Ukrainian Church, our language, our culture. Made sure that no Ukrainians ever held a position of social status of wealth on their own lands. The Poles must admit that they are just as culpable for what happened as we are, in fact MORE. Only then can true progress be made, although a considerable amount of progress has indeed been made. This whole ethnic conflict is still viewed in Poland as completely one sided. With Poles being the victims and Ukrainians being the perpetrators. I am sure that as we begin to find out more and what what happened and why it happened, as more time passes, as more classified archives get opened up. We will find more understanding among our Polish friends.

    1. Avatar Andrew Chmile says:

      The guy that up-voted you — “MichaelA” — is a notorious Ruski **MOLE** just so you know …. lots of them around…

      Yes — you are correct!
      I have argued EXTENSIVELY with polaks —using Aristotelian Logic.

      For THEM — Ukrainian LIVES, etc… are less than SH*T — & only polaks & what polaks WANT — COUNTS!!!

      They ALSO **LIE** & have no problems with such!

      LOGICAL THINKING & LAUGHING AT THEIR IGNORANCE & BRAINWASHING is the only way to (maybe) make some of them think a little bit.

      Polak schools teach them SH*T!!!

      It;s important to KNOW Ukrainian history!!!
      As for polaks??? — I have given up trying to reason with them.

      Most are just ….. illogical shall we say, besides VERY IGNORANT & CHAUVINISTIC!!!

      1. Avatar Alex Prokop says:

        i know how you feel, out of the dozens of Poles i have argued with over this topic, i was able to reason with only one. Even then this Pole was half Ukrainian, and from the start he seemed to side more with Ukrainians then Poles. There are Poles that i did not have to argue with over this topic though, some Polish friends of mine who i work with. We all agreed that this was a terrible point in the History between our two nations and that Polish Imperialism and occupation of Ukrainian lands was wrong. So not all Poles are like these ones. I always try to reason with Poles to the best of my ability because they are not our enemies, yes at a time they were no better then Moscovites but this has changed. Today Poland is our biggest ally. We must focus all of our resources and hate on the real enemy, the bloody Moskals. They have not changed and will never change. It is time to end them once and for all so future generations dont have to experience the aggression of these backward savages and live in a normal prosperous European country. Lately there have been provocations all over Western Ukraine. A memorial to Armija Krajowa was destroyed, then a memorial to UPA is also vandalized and destroyed. A week ago in Lutsk some one shot at the Polish Embassy with a grenade launcher. The Ukrainian SBU has not caught the culprits yet but has intercepted interesting information that point the finger at the Russian FSB. Russia has been trying to provoke bad blood between Poland and Ukraine ever since it grabbed Crimea. They fund radical anti-Ukrainian Polish groups and organize provocations all over Western Ukraine. Theyre propaganda networks constantly play over and over the so called Volyn Massacre, except they do not mention that tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainians were also killed by armed groups such as Armija Krajowa and Polish partisans. Russia is our main enemy, a free and prosperous Ukraine is inconceivable while the same Russian regime is in power. They will do and are doing everything to make sure Ukraine fails as a country. When the EU was about to ratify the treaty with Ukraine Netherlands was the only country to back out. There is significant information that Russian heavily influenced this turn of events which turned the tide against Ukraine in Netherlands. Russia wants the war in Donbas to turn into a completely frozen conflict lasting dozens of years. It is in their interests that Ukraine is always at war as to make EU integration impossible. In good news EU has approved visa free travel for all Ukrainians, Cheers friend. Slava Ukrajini.