Understanding the Ukrainians in WWII. Part 1

wwii

 

2015/05/08 • Featured, History

Article by: James Oliver

The Ukrainians carried at least 40% of losses of the USSR in WWII. The Soviet historiographical concept of the “Great Patriotic War,” however, employed major misperceptions of the Ukrainians’ role and is now being used as a propaganda instrument fueling the war in Donbas. In our series “Understanding the Ukrainians in WWII” we seek to uncover the underreported role of Ukrainians living both in Ukraine and abroad in the most deadly war of the 20th century.

On April 11 1935, a document titled “Valuable Declarations” was published in translated form for the eyes of the top brass of the Polish army. The author was Wsiewołod Zmijenko, a Ukrainian born Polish general who had served in Odesa during the Polish-Soviet war of 1920. His work was an attempt to see the Holodomor for what it was despite the fog of Soviet misinformation. “The Soviet government” he wrote “firmly denies the fact of the famine in Ukraine. This was the basis for turning down the [offer from] European organizations to bring in relief aid. The dissemination of information of the famine was dubbed as slandering [The USSR]. […] The letters from the people condemned to death from starvation were of no help, nor the reports from the correspondents, nor the photos brought in from Ukraine with great difficulties and at great risk. Everything was denied; the material evidence was described as a plot by the bourgeois against the proletarian state. […] So far the Ukrainian and foreign press were full of all types of information on the consequences of the famine in Ukraine. Numbers of 10,000,000, 6,000,000 & 2,000,000 victims were quoted, but the [Soviet] government refused to accept them. Today, it also does not accept it and probably will never admit it officially.” [1]

It is an unfortunate fact that these words ring true even today. Under Putin, Russian historiography on the Holodomor has been contorted to fit glorified conceptions of the Soviet Union. In practice this means Holodomor denial is promoted from the very top of Russian academia. It is not just merely men such as Viktor Kondrashin whom I have dealt with and who simply cherrypicks what pleases him, but also men like Andrei Marchukov whose denialist trite is apparently enough to get him into the position of “staff researcher of the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Russian History” in Russia today. [2]

History whether we like it or not is a weapon of propaganda and the West has practically left the Ukrainians alone to stand up to Putin’s distorted history. With regards to the Holodomor, legislation in Ukraine has existed since 2006 that acknowledges the Holodomor as Genocide as well as making denial of it a criminal offence, much like denying the Holocaust is a criminal offense in Israel. Yet legislation of this spirit was sidelined under the rule of Yanukovych who sought to align Ukrainian historiography to match that of the Kremlin’s. For this reason in post-Yanukovych Ukraine, a stronger dose of medicine than the one in 2006 was felt required for the nation to come out of its Soviet past. On April 9 this year, a bill was passed in the Verkhovna Rada that will open and declassify Ukraine’s KGB archives. There is no doubt that the impact that this is going to have on future books on the history of Ukraine will be profound.

The winds of change that helped lead to this bill could have been felt last year when the Red Poppy became the symbol of remembrance for those who died during WWII instead of the orange and black ribbons of the order of St George, and the day of remembrance marking the end of WWII extended from May 9 to May 8. 

To a western reader unaccustomed to the history of WWII this might seem trivial but it is not. In May 1945 Germany signed two acts of Surrender. In the early hours of May 7, Alfred Jodl on behalf of the Nazi government signed an act of surrender to Eisenhower in his office in Reims, France. However because no Soviet personnel were present in the Surrender ceremony, Stalin demanded another one to be held in Berlin for May 8 where Wilhelm Keitel was ordered to sign a surrender document to Georgy Zhukov. By the time that surrender document had been signed, midnight had passed in Moscow and it was already May 9. The British Commonwealth still retains commemorating VE day on May 7, but most of Europe has it on May 8 and Russia on May 9. Under Soviet and now Putin’s tutelage in Moscow, the latter date has became a regular exhibition of the USSR’s role in “The Great Patriotic War” and an exaltation of Russian “patriotism” packaged in the so-called “Russian fight against fascism” between 1941-45. And the aforementioned ribbons of the order of St George are a part of that. They may have been banned by Lenin for their Tsarist connotations but were revived by Stalin during WWII. They have remained as a symbol of the war and russian nationalism ever since.

In Ukraine as part of its attempt to break away from its Soviet legacy, the term “The Great patriotic war” has been dropped in favour of commemorating WWII more fully. In the words of Volodymyr Viatrovych, director of the Ukrainian National Memory Institute, “For us the Second World War started September 1, 1939, and we do not have the right to narrow it to the Great Patriotic War, as it was much more horrible and tragic.”

Russian historiography on the other hand remains mired in the blinkers of “The Great Patriotic War”. As a result the realities of the Nazi/Soviet alliance that existed between 1939 and 1941 has been whitewashed away from the Russian public consciousness. It should be telling that RT.com’s twitter account dedicated to WWII absolutely fails to mention what happened between what is in essence ⅓ of the duration of the conflict that we call WWII.

On August 23 1939, the German and Soviet foreign ministers Joachim von Ribbentrop and Vyacheslav Molotov signed a so-called “nonaggression pact” with a secret protocol agreeing to carve up Central & Eastern Europe into Nazi and Soviet imperialist “Spheres of influence.” Yet according to Nazi and Soviet propaganda what followed next, was not acts of imperialism but rather “liberation” of allegedly oppressed peoples and “peacekeeping.” On the same day as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed. Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels released this cinema reel for domestic audiences hinting that Ethnic Germans in Poland were in need of protection from acts of alleged Polish barbarism.

On September 17 1939, the USSR would follow suit. As the Red Army was preparing to cross the Polish-Soviet border, Wacław Grzybowski, Polish ambassador to Moscow was handed a note stating that the Belarusian and Ukrainian populations of Poland were in need of liberation from a “Bankrupt” Polish government whom the note had blamed for starting the conflict in the 1st place. [3] On September 3 1939 Britain and France declared war on Germany in support of Poland yet would go on to fail their moral and legal commitments to Poland. Despite this, the official Soviet press indicted the British and the French as the real warmongers in 1939. On September 30 1939 an editorial in Pravda wrote that There is no justification for a war between France and Britain on the one side and Germany on the other, a war which is quite meaningless. It is up to France and Britain to end a war which was begun against the will of their peoples.” On 1 October 1939 another editorial wrote that “the hostility which the imperialist war-mongers [meaning Britain and France] have fomented between the two greatest countries in Europe [meaning the USSR and Nazi Germany] is now at an end.” On 30 November 1939 Stalin gave an interview to Pravda in which he was quoted as saying “It was not Germany who attacked Britain and France, but Britain and France who attacked Germany.” [4] Do not expect to go to a public library in Russia and see such Pro-Nazi Germany articles as these produced between 1939-41. Since WWII they have been cut out to preserve the myth of the USSR being “Anti-fascist.”

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Still from the movie “The Soviet Story”, featuring a page from Pravda which has been cut because this page once contained a Pro-Nazi article

As the note to Grzybowski suggests, Ukrainians were caught up in WWII from the very beginning. In this instance they were used as an excuse for the USSR’s invasion of Poland but the story of the Ukrainian people’s role in WWII goes back before this. To understand why you need to understand that the lands that we call Ukraine today were more than just the Ukrainian SSR. Before 1939 portions of what we now call Ukraine were also under the administrations of Romania, Poland and Czechoslovakia.

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An interwar map of Europe depicting the pre-war borders of Europe as well as depicting the Eastern front at the time it was produced. For illustrative purposes, an outline of contemporary Ukraine has been added. An unedited version of this map can be found here.)

At it’s height, Hitler’s invasion of the USSR managed to completely swallow the whole of Ukraine as well as Belarus, whereas only a portion of western Russia was conquered. For this reason, Belarusians and Ukrainians were far more proportionally affected by WWII than the Russian peoples were).

A taste of what was to come for the Ukrainian people in WWII came about through the dissolution of the latter state. On March 15 1939 Hitler invaded most of what remained of Czechoslovakia after the annexation of the Sudetenland in September of 1938, proclaiming the “protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.” This action left its most eastern province, Carpatho-Ukraine, publicly on an uncertain knife-edge though in private Hitler allowed his ally Hungary to seize the province. On March 16, Avhustyn Voloshyn, a Bishop and politician declared that Carpatho-Ukraine was an independent state. However this “independence” was only to last a handful of hours before the Hungarians annexed Carpatho-Ukraine on March 17. But not without armed resistance. Hundreds of Carpatho-Ukrainians died fighting the Hungarians. More than 1000 Carpatho-Ukrainians escaped to Bratislava. They would later find themselves in German concentration camps. [5] Voloshyn escaped to Prague and survived until near the end of WWII, when he was arrested by the NKVD and shot in Moscow. [6]

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A group of Carpatho-Ukrainians carrying a wounded defender.

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Hungarian Soldiers overlook the fallen bodies of those who tried to defend Carpatho-Ukraine in mountain snow. March 17 1939

Conventional WWII historiography has it that the Polish were the “first to fight” because in September 1939 it was the Polish state that was indeed engaged in its most dire struggle for its independence. As part of that struggle Poland raised Ukrainian soldiers. In the mid morning of 1 September 1939, advanced contingents of the 4th and 36th German Panzer brigades attempted to seize the Polish border towns of Wilkowiecko and Mokra, only to find themselves being repulsed back by men of the Wołyńska Cavalry Brigade. This proved to be one of the few successful defensive battles for the Poles and it was achieved because of the Ukrainian contingent to the Wołyńska Cavalry Brigade, such as men like Konstantin Kosyanchuk and Konstantin Benyuk who were both awarded the “Virtuti Militari” for their heroics on this day. In total, Hitler’s Wehrmacht would come to face over 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers during the invasion of Poland. With the new emphasis in Ukraine on covering the events of 1939-41, perhaps these men will finally get the attention they deserve. Here it’s also worth noting that according to Pavlo Shandruk (who also won a “Virtuti Militari” and whom I will discuss later) before the Soviet invasion of Poland; “The General Staff was aware of a possible Russian invasion and was planning to organize a defense of Galicia; for this purpose two Ukrainian brigades would be created under my command.” [7] However this proposal did not come to pass as it was too late to save Poland in 1939.

Ukrainians in the West

After the defeat of Poland in 1939, many Ukrainians who had served as part of the Polish Armed forces, following their Polish counterparts, fled to France through Romania and Hungary and then to Britain via Dunkirk. One of these men was Wladyslaw Chciuk. Born in Drohobych on June 6 1915. During the battle of Poland in 1939 he had made his name as a fighter pilot before joining the French as part of the “Montpellier Squadron” after his evacuation through Hungary and the Balkans. After his fighting in France had finished he went to Britain and joined the Polish Air force under RAF command as part of the 308 “Krakow” Squadron. He was not alone. Another Ukrainian who undertook a similar journey was Michael Oparenko. Born in Kyiv in 1915, after the fall of France he was evacuated to Britain and joined the 307 “Lvov” Squadron. [8]

In total, almost 17,00 men served as part of the Polish Air force in Britain. Of these, the list of Ukrainians or persons born in Ukraine is quite extensive. The Ukrainian contribution to the British war effort has almost been forgotten in Britain, in part because these Ukrainians were simply counted as Poles at the time and today the Polish efforts have also been nearly forgotten. Because by War’s end an Anti-Polish feeling had developed. In a parliamentary debate on March 20 1946 Ernest Bevan told the house of commons “I have never disguised our firm conviction that, in our view, they ought to go back in order to play their part in the reconstruction of their stricken country.” Except there was no country for go back to. Poles and Ukrainians that relocated back to the USSR were routinely condemned as “fascists” and promptly deported to Gulags. The pro-soviet British left echoed these sentiments and helped ensure that those who had heroically fought for Britain were made not to feel welcome. In addition the British government promoted denial of the realities of the Katyń massacre as well as excluding Poles (and Ukrainians that fought with them) from marching in the June 8 1946 victory parade in London to celebrate the defeat of the Nazis, on the basis of not offending Stalin. Yet despite British hostility, many Poles and Ukrainians stayed. Oparenko for example who became a founding father of the “Association of Ukrainians in Great Britain.”

On July 30 1941, in light of the changing political climate in the wake of Hitler’s invasion of the USSR, Władysław Sikorski, head of the Polish government in exile signed an agreement with the Soviets which entailed the creation of a Polish army on Soviet controlled soil under the command of the Polish government in exile. On August 12 Stalin signed a so-called “amnesty” for those in the USSR who could prove that they were indeed citizens of the former Polish state. Before 1941 Stalin had deported 1.5 million Polish citizens, most of which ended up as prisoners in Siberia and Kazakhstan. The “amnesty” offered a chance for escape, however for minorities of Poland such as the Ukrainians and Belarusians that the USSR claimed to “liberate” in 1939 there were obstacles to overcome on the presumption of Stalin that both groups were Soviet citizens, not Polish. [9] Despite this, many Belarusians and Ukrainians slipped through and joined the new Polish Army headed by Władysław Anders. In 1942 Stalin, increasingly becoming discontented with the Poles in the USSR, allowed the evacuation of the Polish army to the middle east. They would spend the rest of the war fighting alongside with the western allies. The II Korpus Polski formed out of these evacuees would go on to earn distinction for its role in such battles as the Siege of Tobruk during the North Africa Campaign and Monte-Cassino during the Italian campaign, and it had a clear Ukrainian backbone. According to Yury Shapoval, ⅛ of all the men who served under Anders were Ukrainian.

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Tombstone of Jan Iwaniuk. Born in Lviv in 1911, he fell at the battle of Monte-Cassino on May 17 1944 on the day the German forces there began to stage a retreat. His is just one of the many Ukrainian tombstones you can find at the nearby Polish cemetery. Photo via http://www.polskiecmentarzewewloszech.eu/en/

On July 22 1944 a young Ukrainian by the name of Vasily Porika met his death on the fields of Arras. In 1942 he had been captured fighting on the eastern front by the Germans and interned as a POW in Beaumont in northern France. Here he spent his time actively building links with the French resistance before making his escape in July 1943. After a recapture and imprisonment in Saint-Nicaise he managed a 2nd escape and by April 1944 he became an active leader in the resistance with the alias “Lieutenant thunder” until his death barely 3 months later. For his actions, Porika has been posthumously awarded the title “Hero of the Soviet Union.” [10] By no means was he the only Ukrainian to fight with the French resistance. Under very different circumstances on August 27 1944, a pair of Ukrainian battalions raised by the Germans in Galicia and who were meant to fight French partisans on behalf of the Germans defected to the French resistance. [11] After the war most of these Ukrainians would not repatriated back to the USSR on the basis that Stalin would persecute them for their collaboration with the Germans. Many would go on serve on as part of the French foreign legion. Since WWII debates have raged over if recruitment to the FFL during the 1940s allowed war criminals to avoid prosecution. One thing that is not in doubt is the Jewish contingent to the FFL who in WWII helped fight against the Germans. One of the most notorious Ukrainian Jews to serve in the FFL was Sholom Schwartzbard who is most known for his assassination of Symon Petlura.

Every year in the small French village of Les Martres-de-Veyre there is a ceremony to honour the memory of Peter Dymtruk or “Pierre le Canadien” as he is locally known. A Ukrainian born in canada who had served in the Royal Canadian Air Force before joining the French resistance. On December 9 1943 he was shot by the Germans for sabotage activities but such was his notoriety for being both a foreigner and an active participant in the resistance that the Germans deemed that his execution alone was enough to break the spirit of the local resistance. Without that fame it is perhaps likely that the whole village of Les Martres-de-Veyre where he was found would have been massacred along with him. He has been posthumously awarded the “Croix de guerre.”

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Photo of a service commemorating Peter Dymtruk or “Pierre le Canadien” at his memorial plaque in Les Martres-de-Veyre

There are plenty of stories about Ukrainians who fought in the west, each with their own context and setting as there are plenty of stories about Ukrainians in the Red Army or Ukrainians at home. And if you include the Ukrainian diaspora on the other side of the Atlantic than the subject becomes a very broad one indeed. One additional member of the Ukrainian diaspora who has received increased attention is Nicholas Oresko for his actions in the US army against the Germans. Not all Ukranians belong with the same brush (and especially not the overly crude ones coming from out of the Kremlin) and in the next few posts I am going to help show that by sharing some of the stories of the Ukrainian people in WWII.

Part 2, featuring stories of Ukrainians in the Red Army, is here

[1] W Zmijenko, “Valuable declarations.” Cited in J Bednarek et al., “Poland and Ukraine in the 1930’s – 1940’s, Unknown Documents from the Archives of the Secret Services. Holodomor The Great Famine in Ukraine. 1932–1933,” No 216, p576-79.

[2] On A Marchukov and his Holodomor denialism. See my comments here.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sl8e54

[3] Republic of Poland: Ministry of foreign affairs. “Official documents concerning Polish-German and Polish-Soviet relations, 1933-1939.” No 179, p191-2.

[4] These Pravda articles are quoted here.

[5] N Davies, “Vanished Kingdoms: The history of half-Forgotten Europe”, p631.

[6] N Davies, “Ibid”, p631.

[7] P Shandruk, “Arms of Valor”, ch19. Accessed here

[8] A brief extended biography of Chciuk can be found here and Oparenko here

[9] For details, see Y Gutman, “Jews in General Anders’ Army In the Soviet Union”, at Yad Veshem.

[10] A biography of Porika can be found here

[11] For additional details, see R Soribey, “Ukrainians fight for France

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  • Yuriy

    This is a nice article, but it is a shame that it follows soviet footsteps and omits , “inconvenient” parts of the history. For example, you cannot talk about WWII, Ukraine and Poland and not even mention massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia by UPA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

    especially in the light of recent events:
    http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/225600.html

    and counting it was mentioned on that very resousre before:
    http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/06/29/ethnic-cleansing-or-ethnic-cleansings-the-polish-ukrainian-civil-war-in-galicia-volhynia/

    It talks about Poland a lot, but fails to mention Germany- Poland non-aggression pact of 1934, dividing Czechoslovakia between Germany and Poland 1938, Poland – Lithuania relations. I personally find Germany-Poland relations in 1938 stunningly similar to Germany-Russia relations in 1939.

    Here is some examples I find interesting:
    Polish – German alliance forms against Russia (Chicago Tribune, 2/24/1938 )
    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1938/02/24/page/4/article/polish-german-alliance-forms-against-russia

    March army into Lithuania, Polish senator shout (Chicago Tribune, 3/15/1938)
    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1938/03/15/page/3/article/march-army-into-lithuania-polish-senators-shout

    Polish – Nazi joint maneuvers
    http://orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Polish-Nazi-joint-maneuvers-in-Volynia-1938.jpg

    • Randall Cook

      Two Words: Operation Vystula…..

      • Yuriy

        My guess is, the author was either going to cover it in the next article, as he did not get to 1947 here, or even omit it as well, since technically it is not a part of WWII

        • Brent

          so you should be against Russia’s current atrocities being committed against Ukraine

          • Yuriy

            Are you sure you know what are you talking about?

          • Dagwood Bumstead

            More to the point, are YOU sure you know what you are talking about?

          • Brent

            Yes.

          • disqus_aJpixObjG7

            Brent, “Ivan Chernovol” and this “Yuriy” are russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian
            libelous paid trolls assigned to work this website. they have been
            instructed not to come on too “overtly” but to spray their toxins in a
            more foxy way.
            Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

    • Stephanie Dowbusz

      This article didn’t even mention UPA. SO why should any massacres?

      • Yuriy

        Good point. Since the article is about Ukrainians in WWII it must have mentioned UPA.

        • Durne Cwaniaczi

          Oh Yuriy – I hope it is naivety not a poor trolling – the articles you link to from the Chicago Tribune are hoaxes all by Donald Day – simple google search (though I recommend a more thorough one) will show you that you either been fooled by propaganda (albeit from 1930s) or spreading it yourself.

          • Yuriy

            You would have to be a bit more specific. While Donald Day is famous for his pro-german and anti-russian articles, in this particular case you cannot make a blanket statement that all of it not true. ( a simple google search would proof that)

            There are 4 Chicago tribune links I posted:

            1. Polish – German deal reported over Lithuania – not Donald Day, but rather information copyrighted by New York Times. Information was written by Clarence Streit, “Reich-Polish Deal Feared in Geneva”.

            2. March army into Lithuania, Polish senator shout. This is Donald Day, but this is March 15 of 1938. The Ultimatum given to Lithuania and 50,000 Polish troops on demarcation line two days later, rather proofs the point of the article.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Polish_ultimatum_to_Lithuania

            3. Polish – German alliance forms against Russia
            Donald Day is talking about the meeting of Herman Goering and president Ignacy Mościcki in February of 1938. They did have a meeting, that’s a fact.
            http://www.poranny.pl/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=KP&Date=20110115&Category=REGION05&ArtNo=18796335&Ref=AR&border=0&MaxW=666

            4. Poland rushes 20,000 police to “pacify” Ukraine – Donald Day.
            I may just give you that one. The only report supporting this claim on those specific days was in the book “Stepan Bandera: The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist” by Grzegorz Rossolinski.
            the book claims that in October of 1938 Polish police prevented demonstrations in Lviv in support of Ukrainian Carpathian state and later conducted punitive expeditions against Ukrainian citizens and made mass arrests.
            https://books.google.com/books?id=SFH_BgAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=October+of+1938+Polish+police+prevented+demonstrations+in+Lviv&source=bl&ots=32Svmizxde&sig=0zwUzoj55bVDcJ3dY4uaBPE7uOc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zblNVYzkCbeBsQSsxYG4Aw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=October%20of%201938%20Polish%20police%20prevented%20demonstrations%20in%20Lviv&f=false

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Oh, God, you are insistent!

            Goering was fascinated with Polish victory over Bolsheviks in 1920, than yes there was a proposition to build a Polish-German coalition against the USSR. We refused and the USSR said “thank you” on the day 17th of September. Do you have anything else to say?

          • Yuriy

            Sorry that I made you feel so defensive. I merely point out things that from my point of view article should mention to tell the full story.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Had the Poles thought ahead more….. and not had their heads up…..

            They should have taken the German deal…. and stopped being bastards to the Germans, Ukes and Lithuanians and towards EVERYONE ELSE.

            A much better way of doing things…

        • disqus_aJpixObjG7

          “Ivan Chernovol” and this “Yuriy” are russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian
          libelous paid trolls assigned to work this website. they have been
          instructed not to come on too “overtly” but to spray their toxins in a
          more foxy way.
          Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

    • Brent

      Yes Yuriy, these are all examples of the atrocities humans have committed against each other throughout history.

      So let me ask you this. Why do you support Russia continuing these atrocities against Ukraine if you are against these same atrocities in the past?

      • Yuriy

        Ca you quote anything but your fantasies to proof that I “support Russia continuing these atrocities”?

        • Brent

          Your constant accusations against Ukraine and your defense of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

          • Yuriy

            Do you know what the word “quote” mean?

    • Oknemfrod

      It’s just the first article in a series laid out chronologically, and I have no doubt that the narrative about the events you mentioned is forthcoming.

    • disqus_aJpixObjG7

      “Ivan Chernovol” and this “Yuriy” are russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian libelous paid trolls assigned to work this website. they have been instructed not to come on too “overtly” but to spray their toxins in a more foxy way.
      Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

    • Gryzelda Wrr

      Perhaps because it’s a article about Ukraine not about Poland? Wait till Putin invades Poland. There will be more article about us then:)

      • Yuriy

        The word “Poland” appears in the article 27 times…

  • Yuriy

    Another thing, it talks about famine in the Ukraine saying “Numbers of 10,000,000, 6,000,000 & 2,000,000 victims were quoted”, but fails to mention the decision of Kyiv Court of Appeal in 2010 (that was later approved by Yushenko) that sets the number at 3 million 941 thousand people, and names the persons responsible.

    http://www.khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1265217823
    http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/16403.html

    • Brent

      That’s still 3,941,000.000 too many to die from starvation by those who governed them and ate well.

    • disqus_aJpixObjG7

      THESE russian “Ivan Chernovols” and “YURIYs” -you disgusting murderous criminals fighting for more russian genocide against Ukrainians-

      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+IM-PRESS+20081022IPR40408+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

      “Ivan Chernovol” and this “Yuriy” are russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian
      libelous paid trolls assigned to work this website. they have been
      instructed not to come on too “overtly” but to spray their toxins in a
      more foxy way. However you can see after 2 posts their murderous racist russian identities have already come out- what sickening russian trash!
      Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS – you will fall by your own sword!

    • disqus_aJpixObjG7

      THE EU PARLIAMENT RECOGNIZES THE GENOCIDE OF THE HOLODOMOR AND PUTS THE OFFICIAL RECOGNITION AT 7 TO 10 MILLION 26 OTHER NATIONS ALSO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE THIS GENOCIDE OF UKRAINIANS BY THESE russian “YURIYs” just like you, you disgusting murderous criminal fighting for more russian genocide against Ukrainians-

      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+IM-PRESS+20081022IPR40408+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

      “Ivan Chernovol” and this “Yuriy” are russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian
      libelous paid trolls assigned to work this website. they have been
      instructed not to come on too “overtly” but to spray their toxins in a
      more foxy way however as you can see already after 2 posts they have blown their cover…
      Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

      • Yuriy

        So, basically you saying Kyiv court of Appeal and SBU investigation got it wrong?

        BTW, the link you posted caries no number estimates, so the “OFFICIAL RECOGNITION” part of the “THE OFFICIAL RECOGNITION AT 7 TO 10 MILLION” statement sounds like a BS.

        • Brent

          That was a very good movie. I think the Russian character died very early and everyone else lived in peace….

    • Andrew Chmilewsky

      Actually the number does NOT include the Ukrainians killed in Ukrainian ethnic lands in the Russian Republic. So the Kyiv Court ruling doesn’t count. The 10 mililon number comes from, besides census reports, what Stalin told Churchill at Yalta. He said 10 million, and he ought to know best.

      You can look it up…. I’m not going to dig for links or argue.

      Also, the court rulling under Yanukowych, does NOT impress me at all! — Court under Yanukowych was KNOWN to be corrupt as hell and Russo-mongol sympathetic.

      • Yuriy

        I don’t think this decision would have been possible under Yanukowych.

    • Andrew Chmilewsky

      “Another thing, it talks about famine in the Ukraine saying “Numbers of
      10,000,000, 6,000,000 & 2,000,000 victims were quoted”, but fails to
      mention the decision of Kyiv Court of Appeal in 2010 (that was later
      approved by Yushchenko)”

      No…. not Yushchenko. You are either wrong or you lied here.

      • Yuriy

        Did you click on the send link I provided?

        “President Victor Yushchenko is convinced that the ruling of Kyiv Court of Appeal recognizing Bolshevik totalitarian regime leaders guilty of genocide in Ukraine in 1932-33 is historic.

        “This decision restores historical justice and gives Ukraine a chance to develop upon fair and democratic principles”, he said.”

        • Andrew Chmilewsky

          You said he “agreed” as in terms of the numbers of people killed by the Russo-mongolians. — NO! HE said it was 10 million. — As most people do… He “agreed” with the court DECISION…. but NOT THE NUMBER… You were either in error, or it would strongly appear, to be prevaricating.

          Gorbechev, claimed it was 14.5 million btw…. NO WAY ANYWERE NEAR 3 or 4 MILLION in any case.

          This was a very clear case of Russo-mongolian genocide against Ukrainians given their hatred for Ukrainians and fear of their being a possible threat to monhol rule. Also with their many bans on books and language. Russo-mongolians hate reading and thinking people. Ruskie…. animal like… See all the raping, torturing they do now still in their “People’s Republics” :)

          The former “Prime Minister” of the “Donetsk People’s Republic” was originally appointed and later dismissed by Putin for child rape. They couldn’t hide all that… A child rapist… He was a Russian citizen of course.

          • Yuriy

            Ok, you obviously did not click on the link nor read my post carefully.
            I said he approved (not agreed – it is a court decision after all), and this is exactly what the title of the link says. The first link tells were this number came from, and out of all the sources (that includes whatever Gorbachev believed in), I tend to trust this court decision.

            According to the Conclusions of the court demographic expert assessment by the Institute of Demography and Social Research of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine from 30 November 2009, as a result of the genocide perpetrated in Ukraine 3 million 941 thousand people died. Of these 205 thousand died from February to December 1932; in 1933 – 3,598 thousand people and in the first half of 1934 – 138 thousand people; v. 330 a.c. 12-60
            .

            Now, adding a poster that reflects on rapes made by Soviet army under the article that claims that Ukrainians were a large part of that army is an interesting move.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Didn’t bother to click, as I question your objectivity there, and I’ve read a few of your posts afterwards.

            Next:

            I do NOT care what you, for your Russo-mongolian DISHONEST agenda, “tend to trust” as It’s not objective in terms of the numbers killed in the Holodomor.

            Nor do I trust anything else you claim, given what I have read, of Soviet etc… sources, which like you, would tend to minimize. Nor did you provide any link to your claim above. Which even if you had, still does not counterweigh all the other sources *I* have read. The word of STALIN at Yalta worth something to you? :)

            Or census reports? — Nor did you bother to mention the Ukrainian ethnic lands, in Russo-mongolia, ADJACENT to Ukraine DURING THE SAME TIME THE GENOCIDE WAS BEING CARRIED OUT… So it was obviously, racially driven in terms of motivation as well.

            Look, I’m having discussions with REAL PEOPLE… really don’t wish to bother with a lying Russo-mongolian paid, slave troll for Putin, with nothing to really HONESTLY do. You’re not worth my time.

            Of note, you ROTE: “Now, adding a poster that reflects on rapes made by Soviet army under
            the article that claims that Ukrainians were a large part of that army
            is an interesting move.”

            Truth doesn’t bother me. MOST OF THE RAPES WERE BY RUSSO-MONGOLIANS…. NOT UKES…. as are THE RAPES in the so-called Luhansk and Donetsk “People’s Republics” … Interesting to read of such btw… Girls kidnapped from villages, later killed by “volunteers” ..
            And no…. then in WW2 as NOW… RIGHT NOW… In Ukeland, it’s the Russo-mongolians… Now what a big surprise! Perhaps you should read more of those accounts… then, and the now to learn this.

            Ilya Ehrenburg, A Russian Jew and “chief journalist” under Stalin as it were, urged Soviet troops to “… take German women and smash their racial purity…. take them as your rightful spoils.” — A Russo-mongolian OFFICIAL POLICY. I find this disgusting. As for the current rapes by Russo-mongolians? Be they from Moscow or Siberia… nothing changes with them… does it now? Another example of “local Ukrainians fighting against the Kyiv junta” as your sort intelligently puts it. Pity they don’t know the PROPER meaning of the Spanish word “junta”, being stupid and all…. And most “cleverly” saying (as they are TOLD TO) about “killing their own people” — while HIDING NEXT TO SCHOOLS, APARTMENT BUILDINGS ETC…. Here’s yo’ Khan talkin’ :
            (they Russo-monhols — did the same thing during WW2 — but ONLY with Belarus and Ukes of course… NOT “their own kind”…. interesting how some trolls attempt to TALK around this… most “intelligent” they are.. indeed!)

            Putin Says He Will Use Human Shields: “We Will Put Their Women and Children in Front of Our Troops”

            Now please excuse me… It’s a BEAUTIFUL SUNNY DAY IN NYC TODAY! I’d like to enjoy some of it!

          • Yuriy

            It is almost 8pm in NYC at the time of the your post, it is rather evening than a day . We are in the same timezone :)

            Anyway, the point of my post was, since the article mentions Holodomor (it even gave 2 mil people as one of the possible estimates, which seems to be fine with you), it had to mention this court decision to have a full story.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Was still “light” at the time.

            “Anyway, the point of my post was, since the article mentions Holodomor
            (it even gave 2 mil people as one of the possible estimates, which seems
            to be fine with you),”

            That number, is as per other posts, obviously not “fine” with me.

            If what you are saying is true…. time zone wise… it tells me that “they’re hard up” — but they do use people from other places… that I know… so…. why not from “my” time zone?

          • Yuriy

            It is funny that you don’t realize the similarity you have to a lot of other typical remains of soviet zealots :)

            It does not matter who your type supports, the methods, the type of thoughts, the arguments – it all carries “made in USSR” sign you are incapable of removing.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Not hardly….

            Do not mistake some comedy with say Gryzelda…– who is KNOWLEDGEABLE and intelligent, than “talk” with say — stupid troll Sovoks — (who MOSTLY — suck).

            For one thing, like you, Sovoks will slip in half truths where and when they think they can, if not OUTRIGHTLY and most BOLDLY lying.

            You’ve merely attempted to be what you imagine to be, more subtle.

            It wasn’t. For one thing, to convince more sophisticated readers is far tougher. To convince someone who doesn’t know much, doesn’t care much, doesn’t count. Waste of time…. but…. from your point of view, “hey! – IDGAF! — I’m still getting paid!”

            The more CRAZED Russo-mongolians, really get into it… D-E-E-P into it. :)

            A pathology of course…. you know what I mean…. “THAT kind!”. They’ll screw you in an instant. You can pretty much tell how straight someone is.

            Constant lying, deceit etc.. seems to do “something” to people. I’ve seen various Russo-mongolians doing things to try to “save their souls”… little things they do… simply to try to maintain a perspective. Others?? — Like I said, they get D-E-E-P into that BS. So they get all f’cked up you can tell. Various stratagems…. some are just entirely “mechanical” about their BS. I’ve seen various things… Talked with some in private message chats….. There ain’t no GREAT BIG SECRETS here! :)

            What’s amusing is, they think that in the West, things like what “they” do, “we” do here! :)

            Paid, professional trolls and such BS! :)

            They really have no frame of reference it seems, even if some of them “speak” (write actually of course) like near-natives.

            Kinda odd…. you can check out my FB if you wanna… They really tried to get me shut down…. :)

            Lying HYSTERICALLY….. whining,, complaining, flagging, usual Ruskie BS type stuff… Trying to generate some sort of excitement for themselves it seems like to me…. or, like you… trying to “engage” — “a real person” — pretending to be “most sincere.” :)

            THAT’S THE KIND I truly despise… you know what I mean… at least — DO NOT PRETEND to be anything OTHER than WTF you are! — And DO NOT LIE!!! At least STFU… but don’ lie like a rug! That’s BS!!! — Or “set off” — you’re “most official remark” for the “checkers”…. who don’t really check ALL THAT BS…. anyway… :)

            Like they’re going to FOLLOW ONE LINE…. nah’…. so “THEY” do NOT have to be such @ssholes as they are… it’s a CHOICE…. how it is, is it not? And the thing is to, talk with REAL PEOPLE…. and not SWINE!

            You know what I mean… Brent is cool… Murf, Grezelda… If you wanna learn something… and not try to be “clever” — like those scumbag trolls are into being.

          • Yuriy

            I guess you consider yourself “more sophisticated reader”. But to be one, you actually have to read :) Which you don’t. (and you yourself admitted it earlier couple times). So it is understandable why you don’t get it.

            The 10 million number, that you keep repeating, is actually consists of two parts:
            1) 3,941 thousand – dead
            2) 6,122 thousand – unborn (so called “birth deficit”)

            You can read it in official Ukrainian sources, like here, for example:
            http://www.sbu.gov.ua/sbu/control/en/publish/article?art_id=96783&cat_id=103520&mustWords=holodomor&searchPublishing=1

            You can call holodomor it “Russo-mongolian genocide” but in reality the genocide was committed by supporters of ideology. The official Ukrainian court decision (the one you didn’t read) blames 2 Jews, 2 Russians, Georgian, Ukrainian and Pole, for example.

            I can throw another quote here, that you are will not like, despite your “Truth doesn’t bother me” statement. Here you go:

            “… there is no doubt that the vast majority of the people who carried out the grain procurements were local Ukrainians and natives to the given village.”

            Source:
            “Investigation of the Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933”, (Submitted to US Congress in 1988) – very interesting read, BTW, if you can handle it.
            page 225
            http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d00831044s;view=1up;seq=253

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “I guess you consider yourself “more sophisticated reader”. But to be
            one, you actually have to read :)”

            Depends who, what, etc….

            “Which you don’t. (and you yourself
            admitted it earlier couple times).”

            Already acknowledged I was paying you scant attention. Cursory read.

            “So it is understandable why you don’t get it.”

            Got enough in your main points.

            “I proved you wrong once (decision approved by Yushchenko, you remember, right? )”

            True. Of course!

            Was rushing…. minor point of “agree” or “approve”. So no need to break your arm patting yourself on the back, like a little Russo-mongolian b*tch with a BIG MOUTH, now is there? :)

            “So here we go again. The 10 million number, that you keep repeating, is actually consists of two parts:”

            No!

            “1) 3,941 thousand – dead
            2) 6,122 thousand – unborn (so called “birth deficit”)”

            No!

            Wasn’t referring to the above, was I?

            “You can read it in official Ukrainian sources, like here, for example:
            http://www.sbu.gov.ua/sbu/cont…”

            I wasn’t using that, was I?
            Did you forget what I was using/referring to?

            Evidently you did.

            Refresh yourself and have some more detail…

            Stalin — Yalta — said to Churchill… blah, blah… census, blah, blah… other stuff.. I didn’t even bother with… No need either …

            Nor did I provide citations, for I didn’t want to bother. (as you did not at some points). For *I* have CREDIBILITY and am NOT a Russki troll BYDLAK who imagines himself to be most clever. :)

            “Now,
            you can call Holodomor “Russo-mongolian genocide””

            I can indeed.

            Independent Ukraine was conquered by Soviet Russo-mongolians in 1920. Correct?

            Simple yes or no would do here. :)

            “but in reality the genocide was committed by supporters of ideology.”

            NO!

            Doesn’t matter in this context!
            THAT’S the “reality”….

            I didn’t do a survey of which Turks had which particular beliefs when slaughtering Armenians. Does it matter?

            It was Russo-mongolian imposed from Moscow. Correct?
            Ukraine was conquered by Russia, right?

            The Soviet Russo-mongol People’s Russo-mongolian Bydlo Army.
            Right?

            Intruding INTO Ukraine, FROM Russo-mongolia correct?

            It doesn’t matter to me if they were TSARISTS, or Green Party members, or the Ruski St. Petersburg Bored Troll Patrol Party…. they were from Russia, weren’t they?

            I don’t think it particularly matters, from one point of view, if the person who kills you voted for Obama or not. — IN THIS DEVELOPING CONTEXT.

            “The official Ukrainian court decision (the one you didn’t read)”

            And I won’t either for IDGAF!
            You are one not at all bright Sovok bydlak! — What does a COURT DECISION FROM ANYWHERE ON THIS PLANET, HAVE TO DO WITH THIS STUPID MOSKAL?

            This is a function of:
            1) Scholarship
            2) Integrity

            CORRECT?

            “blames 2 Jews, 2
            Russians, Georgian, Ukrainian and Pole, for example.”

            It took far, far, far more resources than some nasty Jews, a couple Russo-mongoloids, etc., etc… to accomplish killing 10 million people, don’t you think so, Russki-monhol?

            Yes or no?

            It took NATIONAL RESOURCES AND MANY, MANY, ORGANIZATIONS, GROUPS, PERSONNEL, etc…
            Yes or no?

            Including the train shipments of food from the killing fields to Western Europe, etc.. etc… down to the village level… That’s a national undertaking, for that matter, an INTERNATIONAL UNDERTAKING…. as is a SOVIET UNION undertaking given the amazing scale of such!

            Most impressive of you Russo-mongolians!

            Pity you Russo-mongols can’t do something decent though, isn’t it?

            “I can throw another quote here, that you are will not like, despite your “Truth doesn’t bother me” statement. Here you go: “…
            there is no doubt that the vast majority of the people who carried out the grain procurements were local Ukrainians and natives to the given village.”

            I’ve heard such before. You’re not the first Russo-mongolian I’ve run into that “thinks” he’s most “clever.” :)

            And what does that have to do with what happened in Ukraine to all those people because of the Russo-mongolians?

            Care to answer that?

            For that matter… Just viewed a video of the Winter War in Finland… Now WTF was the 44th Ukie Army attacking Finland when Ukraine doesn’t even border f’ackin’ Finland? — Can you explain that to me, my most intelligent and honest little Russo-mongolian friend how that can possibly be?

            I’m not that bright, and I am most sure, you can explain this to me, can you not?

            “Source:
            “Investigation of the Ukrainian famine of
            1932-1933”, (Submitted to US Congress in 1988) – very interesting read,
            BTW, if you can handle it.
            page 225
            http://babel.hathitrust.org/cg… ”

            I can can handle you and your ignorant BS…

            This is also NOT what anyone who has a scholarly interest would EVER use, anymore than one would a f’ckin’ COURT DECISION, made under some KNOWN pro-Ruskie, murderous, disgraced, SCUMBAG like Yanukovych, RIGHT?

            “Now, did you notice how you just put there some meaningless angry blabber with not very well thought through cartoons, and I just put facts and their sources? It has to mean something :)

            Not quite! :)
            SEE ABOVE !!

            ALL THROUGHOUT!!!

            And read it as would a person who is a BIT more academically inclined that you are.

            Very amateurish!
            Most decidedly would NOT pass an ACADEMIC peer review. Not at all!

            Faki’n COURT DECISIONS and all! :)

            A few lousy, shitty Jews and Russo-mongoloidols and a couple other @ssholes, etc… killing 10 millions… Aha!!!

            THE UKES KILLED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES TO PLEASE THE CLOSET WISHES OF THE RUSSO-MONGOLOIDOLS and their masters! I see….

            That’s it! — They all committed suicide… All their fault — nothing to do with the conquest of Ukraine by Russo-mongolia in 1920, right??

            Very intelligent! :)

            Russo-mongoloidol KRETIN!

            “P’tfu!” — Pluyou!

            I feel better now! :)

          • Yuriy

            LOL, “I did not read Pasternak, but condemn anyway”. – that’s exactly about you. Can’t believe such people still exist almost quarter of a century after USSR felt.

            Do you still not getting that the whole investigation, court and court decision were made under Yuschenko? Seriosly? How is that even possible?

            Either read the paper, and stop saying nonsense, it makes you look stupider with every post. It explains how the numbers appeared in court decision, who found guilty and why, who and how was interviewed and what exactly did they say for US Congress investigation – it is all there.

            Your believe in Stalin is amusing though :). You do realize, the number given by Stalin was covering all of Soviet Union, and included everyone, dead, deported, etc as part of dekulakization. It is obvious if you, well, read it:

            “Tell me,” I [Churchill] asked, “have the stresses of this war been as bad to you personally as carrying through the policy of the collective farms?” This subject immediately roused the Marshal [Stalin].

            “Oh, no,” he said, “the Collective Farm policy was a terrible struggle.”

            “I thought you would have found it bad,” said I, “because you were not dealing with a few score thousands of aristocrats or big landowners, but with millions of small men.”

            “Ten millions,” he said, holding up his hands. “It was fearful. Four years it lasted …. ”

            “These were what you call Kulaks?”

            “Yes,” he said, but he did not repeat the word. After a pause, “It was all very bad and difficult — but necessary.”

            https://books.google.com/books?id=m4KpV6XAbZsC&pg=PA447&lpg=PA447&dq=%22have+the+stresses+of+this+war+been+as+bad+to+you+personally+as+carrying+through+the+policy+of+the+collective+farms?%22&source=bl&ots=w8jMuOucsp&sig=1qbbmMngtsymKsEN3Xqc9iM3Pik&hl=en&sa=X&ei=llBQVZSsHtLHsQSnhoGwCQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%22have%20the%20stresses%20of%20this%20war%20been%20as%20bad%20to%20you%20personally%20as%20carrying%20through%20the%20policy%20of%20the%20collective%20farms%3F%22&f=false
            ______

            Now. I don’t know nor want to know what is that you just “P’tfu!”, and how it have gotten into your mouth, but to each his own, as long as it makes you and whoever you with feel better.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Look…. Russo-mongoloid, who claims to be in my time zone…. as before, no one, no one… in terms of scholarship or academics, unless a legal journal, uses COURT DECISIONS for ANYTHING ACADEMIC….

            I DO give you credit.. for one thing… you DID take the effort to find out what I was referring to, a la Stalin/Churchill/Yalta.

            Hmm…. very good…

            Usually, you monHols (the Ukie use of such of course) just accuse me of lying and LOUDLY declare victory and run off :)
            Rather as you do here to an extent.
            Most “clever” you are… Talk about “traditional monhols”. :)

            I have discussed such issues, esp. the Holodomor, with you Russo-mongoloidols, (along with SLAVIC GENETICS as you may gather) far, far too often! To the most FEVERISH monogoloidol “thinkings”…. and “schemings.”

            Gets rather old…. each of you “re-invents the wheel” and thinks himself a most brilliant monhol indeed!

            As per the bible — “there is nothing new under the sun.”

            I notice you ignored certain points I made. Rather traditional for you monhols…. That most certainly fools me as you of course know.

            English is fairly decent for Ruski…. Usually, Ruski have a hard time with a white language… Not for them…. They kept English for themselves…. and foisted that shitty Russo-mongoloidol hemno on others…. all over Sovok and Eastern Union.

            Didn’t help them much… seems there is a genetic component to learning Indo-European languages.
            Probably why you Finno-Ugric-mongoloidol (various types of Siberian tribes etc.. and “Tartar A groupings” — thus the “mongoloidol” term) have a hard time… your errors, though noticeable aren’t too bad. But clear enough what you are… If one “knows” that is. Amazing how some of “them” try to “pass” for white. Foul creatures that they are indeed. Truly…

          • Yuriy

            Interesting choice of pictures. Judging by those, I would not leave an unsupervised child near you :)

            Other than that, there is no point in your post.
            BTW, people who accused you of lying were not that far off. Seems that you “wildly misinterpret the Stalins Yalta dialog.

            Here is another quote for you, seems like Yushchenko agree with my point of view about ideology and not a nation.

            President Yushchenko again emphasized that Ukraine does not accuse any nation or any state of the Great Famine. “We do not blame Russian nation for Holodomor, only the communist regime”, – he added.
            “We must honor the memory of all those who died in those times – in Ukraine, in Russia, in Kazakhstan, in Belarus or in Europe.
            http://www.unian.info/society/164123-european-media-publish-interviews-with-president-yushchenko.html

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Moron you are…. you wrote: “President Yushchenko again emphasized that Ukraine does not accuse any nation or any state of the Great Famine.”

            Since when does a politician tell me what to think anyway? — Am I like a Russo–mongolian that needs a Putin or a Stalin to know what to think? — WRONG!

            So by your above Russo-mongolian “logic” — I can say that the Germans were NOT involved in WW2, — but only the Nazis — RIGHT???

            Most intelligent!
            Like your saying RUSSIA is not responsible for the Holodomor etc… Like Ukraine WANTED your Russo-mongolian COMMUNIST BS!

            Stupid people you Russo-mongolians are!
            So proud of your BS communism!
            Of how “Russian is the *language* of communism!”
            For 72 YEARS, you had and PUSHED AND FORCED THAT **STUPID** communism BS on everyone you could! — AN APE in a primitive jungle economy, would have had BRAINS ENOUGH to know that BS didn’t work!!! — Yeah…. most intelligent!

            You can REASON OR THINK **HONESTLY** even in a discussion!

            You twist, lie, distort, in your BAD ENGLISH, for you are IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED and a DISHONEST PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLIAN TROLL.

            Try to convince me that a COURT DECISION means anything in a discussion on the Holodomor.

            As per Russia, there was no genocide, and the numbers are much, much smaller than the reality.

            Go do your Russki lying to Russians…. THEY are stupid enough to believe you. I am not, nor is any white man here. Save your BS for Russo-mongolians.

          • Yuriy

            Who told you you have anything to do with “white man”? :)

            You are a common “Homo Sovieticus” old fart, incapable of learning anything new. Human garbage, existing for just amusing the others with your blind stupidity, with knowledge picked up in some yellow newspapers that you can’t either prove nor explain :)

            Ukrainian court decision is representing a Ukrainian official point of view, and the numbers there came from demographic expert assessment by the Institute of Demography and Social Research of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine. Which means much more than the opinion of some perverted old moron.

            Do something, so you will be able to pick up a shred of respect or decency and stop being such a total disappointment.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            * I * — unlike YOU, a common Russo-mongolian, am SLAVIC…. i.e. a “white man” to make things simple for you to understand. :)

            You, hmm…. rather than to be so brief, and call you a Russo-mongolian, I should be more exact, and refer to you as a Finno-Ugric-mongoloidol. The “mongoloidol” serves to cover the various other groups of savages from Siberia…

            You blithered, in BAD ENGLISH, for as before, you are but a Russo-mongolian savage and ignorant and uneducated, the following:

            “…You are a common “Homo Sovieticus” — End quote.

            The term, Homo sovieticus, is a RUSSO-MONGOLIAN term… to show how they are NOT Homo sapien, like people are, but of a different species. Not really human, but sub-human. Russo-monHols (to use the much better Ukie language here).

            Were you not so IGNORANT of the white man, science, and our ways (besides being IGNORANT of any white language — knowing only how to grunt, in that CONSONANT HEAVY, GUTTURAL SOUNDING, ARCHAIC Russo-mongolian dog language) and so UNEDUCATED, you would know, that GENUS is capitalized, yes, but SPECIES — as in sapien or “sovieticus” is NOT you moron!

            Thus, *I* am Homo sapien, and YOU, the monHol, is Homo sovieticus! You are a lousy Russo-mongolian aren’t you? 😉

            To continue:
            Unlike some paid, lying, UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT, Russo-mongolian troll for Putin, I would NEVER attempt to “sell” what some court, or politician has to say about the Holodomor as such is an academic discussion.

            NOR WOULD I LIE ABOUT SUCH, for Putin or ANYONE.

            For only a SCUMBAG (an IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED STUPID ONE) that can not think, or speak English worth a f–k) would do so…

            Nor did you EVER address, any of my points, for you were unable to, little Finno-Ugric-mongoliodol savage. :)

            Did you read the new “official history” of Russia by Putin yet? :)
            It’s “official” you know… so anything, you “thought” you knew (which wasn’t that much anyway…. given that it was SOVIET — i.e. HEMNO) is wrong but of course! :)

            Hmm…. here’s something for you… GIFT!!!

            Never say the white man never gave you anything… :)

            I used to use this, devised it, as you can tell, you nasty mongoloidols used to accuse me of being “a CIA intern” etc… :)

            Most intelligent! :) Been a number of new articles on Russo-mongolian trolls… doesn’t work… but makes everyone hate them (but you’re getting paid so WTF do you care, right?) … hmm…. yeah… subscribe to Julia Davis… she’s good… my FB buddy… you can also check out my FB if you wanna… like I tol’ you befo’… You really SHOULD improve your “Anglish” young man… yo’ Anglish sucks! But… you had Russo-mongolian teachers 😉 BS soviet/sovok/ruskie (all the same hemno) ed-u-kay-sion. 😉

            ///////// Begin:
            No problem with the Russo-mongolidal Horde Trolls :)
            You can ALWAYS know where the Horde Trolls are going to go — and get there ahead of most of them (but they ARE FAST!) by goggling “Ukraine News” …. that’s how they know where to go.

            I hit ’em with my revised “Russo-mongoloidal Horde Paid Lying Troll FAQ.” Copy is below btw.
            Probably revise it some more later.

            I’m not going to ARGUE with ALL OF THOSE NASTY RUSKI TROLLS! :)
            I just post my below as a “new comment” — (making sure the cut n’ paste job has all the urls lined up) — and than, for a busy thread — or a particularly obnoxious troll — will re-post it under the reply. IF I get a “you’ve made this comment before” message — I’ll take something out of it or add a comment – for the “entity” troll – whatever.

            I’ll also use the “graphics” part — as a “group” or singly, depending — and use that as an individual reply perhaps. Makes them STFU, and “spreads the word.” — FAST, QUICK, EASY… they usually back-off or scurry from the light like the roaches they are … People see this. IF A PARTICULARLY OBNOXIOUS TROLL — that “dares” — I’ll write — “WHERE IS THE LIE IN ANYTHING HERE YOU RUSSO-MONGOLOIDAL HORDE PAID, LYING TROLL? — or some such. :)

            Also in it, I have a link to Kyiv Post. :)
            KP is the “DONETSK AIRPORT” for Trolls… they send their newest, dumbest and youngest and most stupid ones here it seems to me, as a “general rule.
            ============================

            PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLOIDOL HORDE TROLLS (with many accounts):

            Cut ‘n Paste this to have this ready in a doc file on your desktop, to alert people. Good for when you get sick of the LYING RUSSIAN TROLLS or “LRTs”.
            PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLOIDAL HORDE TROLLS (with many accounts):

            On those comments sections of articles about Ukraine and Russia? Wherever you get your news, and you see the COWARDLY, LYING, USUALLY ANON. RUSSIANS with “Western sounding” names frequently?

            Upon spotting a LYING RUSSIAN TROLL, don’t even waste time on those LYING RUSSIANS. They LIVE for it! And they’re getting PAID to lie. It’s “a Russian thing” to lie. Always has been. It’s cultural. From history on to any topic, THEY LIE. — Russians…. how it is. For an 8 hour shift, they get $36 a day (worth $18 now – and still going down) and a cheap lunch you wouldn’t give your dog. As the noted and great American wit and observer of Russia wrote:

            “Fish swim, birds fly, dogs bark, Russians lie.” – Dan Ramsey http://WWW.KyivPost.com commentator.

            LYING RUSSIAN TROLLS – all over the net. About all those lying, cowardly, anonymous Russian Trolls – fooling the suckers:

            RUSSIA IS A DYING NATION: SOME STATISTICS
            There are only 110 million ethnic Russians there and 30% of adult men are officially declared alcoholics. Two out of three ethnic Russian men were drunk while they died. The average life expectancy of a Russian male is less than 58 years. Here some data from the 2012 WHO report based on data filed by Russia’s statistical authorities. The numbers Khan Putin doesn’t want you to see!
            http://tinyurl.com/p8gwaay

            Russia’s top 100 lies about Ukraine (WITH PHOTO DOCUMENTATION)
            — by Julia Davis — BRILLIANT!
            (links to the first 20. 40, 60, 80 lies in the page below)
            http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine

            Also check out Julia Davis’ FB page and give her a “like” and consider “following.” She covers U.S. news as well. — FAST, QUICK, BRIEF, TERSE!
            https://www.facebook.com/FilmMouse?fref=tl_fr_box

            Graphics:
            The Little Girl – Russian claims
            http://tinyurl.com/p45gh4b

            Russian Terrorists Using Ukrainian Children as Human Shields
            http://tinyurl.com/llpmcdw

            Putin’s Militants Torture & Kill Ukrainians: US Mass Media Keeps Silence (and they put it on Russian state tv!) (WARNING! GRAPHIC!)
            http://spectrumhr.org/?p=1983

            Evil Fat Russian Priest – caught at last!
            http://tinyurl.com/psqo4of

            Russian claims on Ukrainian Army
            http://tinyurl.com/n2yafxv

            Claim of Ukrainian morgue of dead civilians killed by army
            http://tinyurl.com/pgy5hoq

            Russian Terrorists Kill Animals
            http://tinyurl.com/qdedgn9

            The Opinion-Makers: How Russia Is Winning the Propaganda War
            SPIEGEL ONLINE INTERNATIONAL
            http://tinyurl.com/qysyqp7

            Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America – BuzzFeed News
            http://tinyurl.com/lv9exl6

            The readers’ editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories -Guardian moderators, who deal with 40,000 comments a day, believe there is
            an orchestrated pro-Kremlin campaign
            http://tinyurl.com/obud4d3

            Inside Putin’s Campaign Of Social Media Trolling And Faked Ukrainian Crimes
            http://tinyurl.com/lvcz87y

            Russian Propaganda Is Taking Over Online Comment Boards
            http://tinyurl.com/opsq64l

            Russia’s Online-Comment Propaganda Army
            http://tinyurl.com/n2z6ebe

            Russia’s information warriors are on the march – we must respond – The Daily Telegraph
            http://tinyurl.com/od92ub3
            —————————————–
            Internet Troll Operation Uncovered in St. Petersburg
            http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=100&story_id=38052
            —————————————–
            Russia’s 30-Ruble Army Emerges Again
            http://www.rferl.org/content/russia_30_ruble_army_emerges_again/24477703.html

          • Yuriy

            One correction, you are a “white trash” at most, which is far from a “white men” :)
            The rest of your post is your usual nonsense, interesting only to your shrink :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            A most minor correction if that is the best you can do indeed! :)

            Still, there is data there… but only for those who wanna think a bit on some of it…. like…. “hmm…. so they lied about that one too eh?”

            That sort of thing… But… chances are, you know about that anyway… SOME … anyway… but not all !!

            The VECTOR of the lying, SHOULD tell you something… the omissions as much as the commissions as it were.

            Nothing you didn’t know… but good to have a reminder… so you can say to yourself, “the Uke was right! They know these things!” :)

            What ALWAYS amazed me, most seriously, was HTF {{(how) TF}} did those non-Rus, would be “Ruskey” (note the ADJECTIVE FORM) convince themselves they were “superior” to the white man?

            Hmm… remembered, bans on language, thus SPREADING IGNORANCE …. INTENSE RUSSIFICATION…. (See Ivan Dziyba,
            _Internationalism or Russification_)

            etc… killings, deporting of intellectuals, getting rid of Ukie priests in villages, sending RUSKIE PRIESTS instead and the AMAZING LYING ABOUT THE HISTORIOGRAPHY!!! The SCOPE and BOLDNESS of it was enough to take my breath awayn and to say G.D.!
            WHAT @SSHOLES! BIG TIME!

            And for the most part, they are STILL convinced of such, and even IF they do know…. they FEEL THE NEED TO CONTINUE SUCH BS to the WHITE MAN….

            Like when I asked this Ruskie… “So is the Ukrainian the same as Russian?” — You KNOW the answer he gave :)

            “ALMOST THE SAME!”

            Asked the dude…. “is Polish the same as Russian?” — HE HESITATED!!! :)
            Reluctantly, grudgingly, he said “no.”
            AMAZING!

            That HORDE COLLECTIVE NEED TO LIE…. that INSECT MENTALITY!!!

            This is most f’ked-up ya’ know…
            The pathology is indeed astonishing!

            It’s IMBUED INTO AND INHERENT IN THE VERY CULTURE!

            Sorta’ the “yop tvoy mat” thing of theirs… you DO know the CULTURAL REASON FOR SUCH, DON’T YOU? — If not, look it up! Tax collection and the Mongols… The Moscow “got the job” … and continued such!!! Mongol based culture really…

            Here’s something… should be updated… But note the psychiatric and CULTURAL TRAUMA (sexual as well — statistically).

            Recall!
            Repetition is the act of an abused child. — Culturally transmitted. Note how the language remained the same for you monHol savages… until the Ukes were asked to reform it when you monhols said, “it’s getting hard to speak this sh*t!” — Did so twice… See what I mean?

            Have this as well :)

            – the COWARDLY ANONYMOUS PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLOIDAL HORDE TROLL AND SLAVE OF PUTIN ROTE:

            Cut n’ Paste to have handy for the Paid, Lying Russo-mongoloidal Horde Trolls:

            http://WWW.KyivPost.com commentator “optionrider” wrote to a PAID, LYING Russo-mongolidal Horde Troll thusly:

            “You’ve just demonstrated what my friend, a new drug clinical trial monitoring coordinator told me after a few months long assignment in a clinical hospital in Moscow: “Russia isn’t a state; its the state of minds of its brainwashed population living in a parallel universe”.

            RUSSIA HAS MANY “FIRSTS” IN THE WORLD
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of homicides – 21.5 per 100,000 population;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of smoking by children and adolescents;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of the relative number of prisoners (720-780 per 100 thousand population);
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of bribes for admission to universities;
            – Russia ranks first in the world in terms of growth of tobacco;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of accidents on the roads;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of deaths from suicide among adolescents 15-19 years of age;
            – Russia ranks first in the number of plane crashes in the world;
            – Russia ranks first in the world in absolute magnitude of population decline;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of suicides among the elderly;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of divorces and children born out of wedlock;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of sexual offenses against children;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of children abandoned by their parents
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of mortality from diseases of the cardiovascular system;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of patients with diseases of the mind;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of human trafficking
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of abortions and maternal mortality
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of heroin (21% of world production)
            – Russia ranked first in the world for the consumption of alcohol and alcohol-containing products
            – Russia ranked first in the world in sales of spirits;
            – Russia ranked first in the world in terms of growth in HIV-infected
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of aircraft accidents (13 times the average)
            – Russia ranks first in the world in number of billionaires, pursued by law enforcement agencies
            – Russia ranked first in the world in the number of accidents
            – Russia ranked first in the world in importing Chinese cars
            – Russia ranked first in the world in importing kangaroo meat from Australia
            – Russia ranks first in the world in volume of export of rough diamonds

          • Yuriy

            You getting boring and start repeating yourself.
            So far on the topic discussed you were the one who was not able to prove any claims, nor able to provide any links, gave a stupid interpretation to a very easily understandable dialog, showed disrespect to Yuschencko and his decisions as well as Ukranian court. You also did some claims, like Russia’s demographic situation, that made me think it is better in Ukraine, so I checked. Well… as expected.
            All those “Russia’s” links are old, irrelevant to the discussion we had and I don’t care much for them, as I never lived in Russia.

            BTW, you may want to check your sources, just glancing through some of the info you posted, i see that incarceration rate for Russia is wrong in your list, nor Russia is the first, also the number of intentional homicides is wrong and Russia is not the first either (even if the number mentioned here was true). Suicide rate among adolescent Russia is 3rd, and average suicide rate is higher in Ukraine than in Russia. If you unable to find the actual sources, ask me, I will give you the links. Gives you a food for thought – what else you have been lied about?
            Again, I am not protecting Russia, I am just exposing the lies you picked up without thinking. I think people like you just hurt the credibility of real patriotic Ukrainians by trying to associate with them.

            You may think you are “slavik” and “white”, but I doubt both of those group are proud of having you there. You know, like Russians say “V sem’ye ne bez uroda”…
            The person you really remind me is Zhirinovskij, I think that’s you type – a little psychotic, saying nonsense, poser and a clown. Don’t get offended here, I am just stating a fact.

            Anyway, I am pretty much done with you, since it is very clear what you are. But as a goodbye gift, I want to give you a link to a book, that I think you will appreciate. (no kidding, seriously). It will improve your reading skills (and we established that you can benefit from it), and I think this book fits your profile.
            Канигін Юрій – Шлях Аріїв: Україна в духовній історії людства
            http://royallib.com/book/kanign_yury/shlyah_arv_ukrana_v_duhovny_stor_lyudstva.html

            You can thank me for that later.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            If I repeat myself, WHICH I HAVE, it’s because you never DIRECTLY answer the aforementioned REPEATED POINTS.

            So there is a CORRELATION with that… How amazing this must be for you my little Russo-mongoloidol friend…
            And I am certain you have noticed that I have noticed your great (standard for them) “cleverness” in such. 😉

            And I see… you still put that stupid “showed disrespect to Yuschencko and his decisions as well as Ukranian court”

            on some sort of pedestal that supposedly, it is my “duty” as a Uke to worship! :)

            Do another line… Blow two more lines… (cocaine) it might help! Learn some “Anglish” while yo’ be at it… for yo’ “Anglish” puts me in anguish! :)

            You must be high as a kite to “repeat yourself” with such as your above — in such an intelligent fashion, and to imagine that such is supposed to have GREAT MEANING for me! :)

            Hmm….lemmie see… you ROTE: “You also did some claims, like Russia’s demographic situation, that made
            me think it is better in Ukraine, so I checked. Well… as expected.
            All those “Russia’s” links are old, irrelevant to the discussion”

            Never said the “firsts” were relevant… just giving you some things, that I had handy… FAST… das’ all… das’ it…

            You wanna correct the data, which probably is outdated by now… sure, gimmie the links AND Russo-mongol world place, homocides whatever, I’ll rename it to “top Ruskie places” or some such… ” — Thank you! :) Now do what you said. :)

            Re: The book? — Gimme the central point of what it’s about from YOUR PERSPECTIVE…. fast, quick. I’ll invest a serious look if so deemed.

            Fair enough?

            Btw, never said Ukeland was a better country then Russia — or rather — the Russian Federation.

            But, barring what international surveys say, WHICH I DISAGREE WITH — even if they are “official” :))) you ARE more free, to open your mouth up and B*TCH at what you don’t like in Ukeland.

            Economically? At this point in time… hmmm… I don’t wish to say…. too many factors… food prices for one… Many Ukes, do like to grow and can their foodstuffs … probably in economics, I’d give the edge to Ukeland — as OPPOSED TO **RUSSIAN PROPER TERRITORY** —- Food!

            Ruskie are net importers of *FOOD*. Not a good thing, in terms of “basics”… not at all… but… I have no “overall” gig to sell… IN TIME, it will be better for Ukeland… not now! Russia? Hmm…. too unclear…

            At this moment, I’d lean towards Russia in terms of economics … “overall”… I “suppose”. So what? :)

            See what I mean and how I’m putting it? Neither are in good shape…

            Recall the *cultural* aspects and my nasty comments about Russia there!
            There was METHOD in that!
            From the point of view of prognosis and well as “culturally” and *psychiatrically* — ruminate upon that a bit… In a rush… So???

            What about that book you CLAIM I would like. Why?

          • Yuriy

            You can google your “first” topics. I noticed couple, like
            incarceration rate, homicide or suicide because I look at those before, on US firearm laws discussions.
            But in general I would advise you to check the facts you pickup – propaganda and lies are coming from both sides.

            Your repeated complain about the mythical points I missed is ridiculous, but I guess cocaine comment explains that. Those few points you made are covered in the links I posted before, and only your refusal to read stands between you and the answers.

            Here are the links I promised:
            http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison_population_rate?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All

            http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?order=wbapi_data_value_2012+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

            The best source for suicide data is http://apps.who.int/healthinfo/statistics/mortality/whodpms/
            but it is likely to be to complex for you to use. You can try wiki though:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

            The book is just an interesting book, somewhat controversial, fits your profile. Try it. Or don’t try it. You probably have some idea as to what level I care.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “But in general I would advise you to check the facts you pickup – propaganda and lies are coming from both sides.”

            It formal logic, you gave a “False Equivalence” per your above.
            In general shall we say, I am very much inclined ot say that the BIGGEST, most BLATANT, are far, far, VERY FAR and away by the Russo-mongoloidols.

            MH17 — For instance.
            Could ANYTHING have been as BLATANT — and BIZARRE, including changes in Wiki as to the performance characteristics in Ukie jet fighters, traced no less to an IP in the Kremlin, and on and on and on…. a plane full of corpses on board that were refrigerated and on and onee the most truly, truly BIZARRE @SS SH*T indeed! Most impressive!
            ( SUPER BRIEF here — some Julia Davis stuff)
            http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-10-lies-about-downed-malaysia-airliner

            So the “False Equivalence” BS, “they” tell YOU to use, to muddy up hemno, is most…. to be polite… “primitive” — GOT IT?

            Like I tol’ you befo’ see Julia Davis — her series on Russki BS…

            Here’s some Julia (Yuliya) Davis links fo’ yo’ head:

            (You can also check out — not by Julia Davis – Uke group — StopFake.org )

            http://www.examiner.com/homeland-security-in-los-angeles/julia-davis

            http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine
            (see some of her other similar links on bottom of page)

            Like I gave you befo’:
            Also check out Julia Davis’ FB page and give her a “like” and consider “following.” She covers U.S. news as well. — FAST, QUICK, BRIEF, TERSE!
            https://www.facebook.com/FilmMouse?fref=tl_fr_box

            Julia also has a FB page on Russian Propaganda
            *DO* “consider” – to be polite ’bout it:
            https://www.facebook.com/RussiaLies?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

            Yo’ book — I’m a Christian.
            Just not a good one… :)

            Fo’ you head:
            AC/DC – Highway to Hell :)

            The Man All Atheists Fear:
            (might wanna keep this handy :)
            William Lane Craig’s Debates (Reviews)
            commonsenseatheism.com/?p=392

            Atheist vs Believer debates:
            See William Lane Craig Debates
            You tube search:
            http://tinyurl.com/mmdzhrn

            Anyway…. the “usual BS” *THEY* “cleverly” tell you, such a bright fellow you are indeed, indeed…. for you BELIEVE THEM :)
            to create a “False Equivalence” — Doubt… a sense of nihilism… etc… depending on how “deep” the SH*T HEADS went… to teach you to be “clever” is OLD SCHOOL disinformatsia BS… (yawn!) Most boring… Not very bright… and a waste of your time and most STUPID to try to pull on me.

            KEEP TO YOUR OWN LEVEL…
            Do it with more, with the dullards on yo’ level… KNOCK YOURSELF OUT THERE! Have a good time there! 😉

            You ain’t the brightest bulb at the Marquis ya’ know… 😉

            Tryin’ to pull that hemno most certainly proves it. Now I have given you a GREAT DEAL OF SOME most fine data, and sources fo’ sum mo’ ….

            And even a a “shot” at eternity :)
            How most profound!

            Thank me later! :)
            Or odds are, biblically speaking, most strictly (not that you’d f’ckin’ know sh*t) that is, “odds are” — curse me in hell! :)

            IDGAF! — Ah did mah’ f’ck’n good deed fo’ to-o-o-dey!!! mo’ fo’!

            A waste of course….

            Now repeat at me, again… mo’ of WTF dey be a’tellin’ you to say…. Surely you’ll be able to whisper THE SEEDS OF DOUBT INTO MY EAR!!!!

            f’ckin’ dum kretin @ss soviet mo’ fo’ piece of hemno…. Ruskie svolich & turd…. monhol… go make yo’ quota like a good boy…. SRATCH!
            “P’tfu!”

          • Yuriy

            Ukraine’s new online army in media war with Russia
            http://www.bbc.co.uk/monitoring/ukraines-new-online-army-in-media-war-with-russia
            http://3.i-army.org/index_en.php

            Sifting Ukrainian Fact From Ukrainian Fiction
            http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/world/europe/sifting-ukrainian-fact-from-ukrainian-fiction.html?referrer=

            Kiev’s Fake Picture Scam
            http://www.globalresearch.ca/kievs-fake-picture-scam/5395298

            Ukrainian site Censor.net published edited photo of a Russian soldier
            http://www.stopfake.org/en/ukrainian-site-censor-net-published-edited-photo-of-a-russian-soldier/

            I am not as ready as you are, but quick search reveals the same shit. You can add the BS I had to “correct” you on (you call it “outdated”, pls find me the dates when it was correct :) ) to the list.
            So, just STFU 😉

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Lemmie fookin’ see, lemmie fookin’ see WTF the monhol has presented fo’ my delectation as it were…..

            I skipped IMMEDIATELY to stopfake.org, wondering WTF a sovok commie fck like you would want to go to a Ukie site fo’….
            Ukrainian site Censor.net published edited photo of a Russian soldier

            http://www.stopfake.org/en/ukrainian-site-censor-net-published-edited-photo-of-a-russian-soldier/

            Hmm….. OK!!! VERY GOOD! Ukes caught some lazy @sshole! VERY GOOD!!! I am most pleased with this!
            It’s like when they catch U.S. news @ssholes doin’ dishonest hemno! GOOD! I AM PROUD OF THE UKES FOR THAT!!! :)

            Thank you far sharing! — I am totally serious…. as the saying goes…. “serious as a heart attack!”

            Above that?? — I didn’t even hit the link…. GLOBAL FOOKIN’ RESEARCH…. ah yes… yes indeed!

            THEM!!! :)

            Yeah… I didn’t even fookin BOTHER to click that hemno….. no fookin’ way, Jose! (Learn some U.S. slang when you learn to talka da Anglish btw…. which IS tough for you monhols to learn… I’ve noticed that…)

            Global Research… I am VERY familiar with… I won’t even sh*t there…. I recall one fine day…. a FEW DAYS LIKE THAT BTW, when the stupid [email protected] HAD NOTHING BUT ANTI-UKE STUFF ON THEIR ENTIRE FRONT WEB PAGE!!! :)

            ENTIRELY!!! :)

            WTF happened there? :)

            (ras)Putin put in an emergency calll or some hemno or somethin’ ? :)

            Like WTF??
            Those Canadian frogs should’ve chilled out a bit…. just a bit…

            They were fookin’ WORSE THAN THE WORSE OF RT!

            — AH DEE-CLAIRE!!!

            AH SWEAH!!!

            Fo’ REAL!!! :)

            Most enthusiastic French commie [email protected] indeed! :)

            They’re sorta the “updated Pravda from Stalin times” :)

            Like you commie types will do…. AT BEST, you will FIND A SMALL TURD OF TRUTH…. if your are so inclined for that much on a good day…. and create a MOUNTAIN OF HEMNO out of such…. I could go on and on about Global Research… Pissed me off when James Corbett of “The Corbett Report” has stuff from them and vice versa there… BUT… he’s at LEAST CAREFUL… not to be REALLY SCUMMY…. He has the DECENCY at least…. when he has “one of THOSE” on his news show… to KEEP HIS OWN MOUTH SHUT… at least when it comes to Ukeland you see… but he at LEAST hasn’t SOLD OUT HIS SOUL…. THAT FAR…. the “circuit” as it goes…. is:

            RT– Global Resarch — Russia Insider (they banned me from posting there recently btw. ) Sputnik, Alex Jones, i.e. “Prison Planet” – LIFE NEWS, RENSE.COM etc.. etc.. websites and certain “journalists” — the thing to do… is IF YOU GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT…. any of the above… you get a guest appearance, an article published… a small honorarium, and then it circulates, circulates… the KEY THING, is to get SOMETHING “slipped in” — into a main stream media (msm) outlet…. then you can REGURGITATE IT ENDLESSLY…. more fame, more credentials, more bucks, more author credits… That’s how the game is played… fat, two faced and VERY LOUD Alex Jones even BLATANTLY has RT articles etc. BS on his site.

            The thing “they/you” do is …. is to attempt to weave “a narrative”… :)

            And yeah, there most CERTAINLY is a lot of BS around… indeed, indeed… but is it DIRECTLY RELEVANT? :)

            I’m a Libertarian politically and an “Austrian” in terms of the school of economics. I am QUITE familiar with BS, agenda groups, interest groups, and all sorts of @ssholes indeed! The question in terms of Ukeland is — SO WHAT?

            Like when you STUPIT fcks — ENDLESSLY DRONE ON and ON…. about Virginia Nuland… and $5 billion! $5 billion! $5 billion! $5 bil….

            Or take a SNIPPET or a small MOUTHFUL — A PARTIAL — like about the Russian Maidan snipers — who of course were Ruski imports for the job…. and SPIN A **SNIPPET** of a PARTIAL STATETMENT — and “spin” it to the moon…. ENDLESSLY… REPETITIVELY… because such BS works on you STUPIT fookin’ RUSKIE KRETINS :)) AND IT DOES! — Repeat the lie, repeat the lie… repea…..

            Besides, you sh*ts “think” — “maybe it will work someplace else on someone else… BUT *I* am gettin’ paid ANYWAY!!! :)

            One ex-Sovok Ruskie sh^thead — “journalist” — SLIPPED SOME BS INTO AN MSM PUBLICATION — NEWSWEEK NO LESS!!!

            Julia Davis (good Ukie woman!!! NASHA!!!) EXPOSED AND PROVED IT WAS BS!!!

            Did fookin’ NEWSWEEK retract it?

            NO!!! They DARED to ask Yulia to RETRACT **HER** STORY exposing that BS!!! — In the END… NEWSWEEK DID make — A PARTIAL RETRACTION…. of course… at the time that BS was slipped in by (of course!) LYING RUSSO-MONGOL into NEWSWEEK… in went there to “Russia Insider” RT…. etc…. etc… because that BS was SLIPPED IN — to a msm site… But that PARTIAL RETRACTION — FORCED — out of NEWSWEEK…. well… you KNOW …. THAT RUSKIE turd, will NEVER get ANYTHING into ANY U.S. MSM publication, EVER AGAIN… he’s ruined you see… Probably got a few bucks to slip something in…. which was why he did it… you know Ruskie have no concept of honor… That why God punished them and made them Russians you know…

            Yeah, Julia Davis, and a buncha people kicked in for that one… So know you know how the “Ruskie BS media circuit in the West pretty much works”… there’s more of course.. but… you got the idea… Fat Alex Jones appears a lot on RT videos… he promotes his products, website… he’s anti-Uke…. — but — it PAYS HIM TO BE…. he’s a KURVA you see.

            Now you may ask… “but it’s profitable, otherwise he wouldn’t do it, right?” — Obviously!

            And as a person, against the BS Bush Wars, Obama Wars…. Federal Reserve, Israel, Palestine, Iran etc… etc… yeah… CERTAIN TRUTHS ARE TRUTHS…. and lies are lies… the attempt to “weave me” or people like me…. and suck me int…. to a false paradigm, is most … :)

            unlikely….

            Good that the Ukes “busted” some scumbag “journalist” !!!! WONDERFUL!!

            The other hemno? — Yeah, like you said… you’re not as prepared as me…

            To conclude this little disquisition, you HATH ROTE THUSLY:

            “I am not as ready as you are, but quick search reveals the same shit.
            You can add the BS I had to “correct” you on (you call it “outdated”,
            pls find me the dates when it was correct :) ) to the list.
            So, just STFU 😉 ”

            Very Russkie way of thinking btw… a “FRAMING OR PATTERN OF THOUGHT” as well…. to an extent..

            You can’t even “see it.” It’s a “psychology” — a … “mentalnist” to use the Ukie as it “fits” better. And you can understand — VAGUELY (maybe??) what I am getting at.

            Always declare, (like the Ruskie do :)
            VICTORY!!!! At the end!!!

            Young man!!! — You are indeed “a trip” — U.S. slang expression..

            Well… ok… you have your 12 hour shift… You’ll see it when you do… you might even think a bit…. but for your immediately above quote? … I very much doubt if you REALLY “caught” what I was saying… about that “mentalnist”… it’s VERY Ruski/SOVIET… But…. SHRUG…. that’s how it goes…. it’s MOST FCKED indeed!

            “There, but for the grace of God, go I.”

            Thanks for the Stop Fake stuff…

            A few “journalists” get “busted” for BSing… in the U.S. — good!

            MSM — is nasty BS! — BUT IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE TRUTH, you will… even you know that… anyway… do your “job” 😉
            Carry on!

            Too much and too long of doing the BS you’re doing…. WILL — “get you” as you know… How could it not?

            But… for Ruskie?? — Well… lying is …. INHERENT in them… sad… but… how it is… Ukes ARE better and can SNAP OUT OF THAT BS for the most part… by being FORCED TO…. :)

            I KNOW about that. :)

            Your kind — well, it’s more problematical shall we say.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Hmm…… back… just thinking….

            That ex-KGB dude, who escaped to the West…. U.S. — I hope your BS “training” wasn’t longer than a half hour… that was how long the KGB talked for on youtube.
            About pulling the same stupid sh*t you’re trying to weasel, like a little b^tch or a faqqot.

            You mongols are AMAZINGLY robotic in how you “stick to the script.” No matter how *STUPIT*

            False Equivalence gig, of “we’re hemno and you’re hemno too.” :)

            The “everyone lies” BS.

            That may be…. but the question may perhaps, in monhol terms so you can understand is — WTF do you sh*ts tell the truth? :)

            Nah’…. to continue on … at this point, in THIS CONTEXT…. in your sh*tty Ruskie BS Anglish and “cleverness” …. with :) the training in such BS… :) Just rather staggering! The EVIL of such…. and your STILL PLAYING THIS BS! :)

            You are truly — “ill.”
            You can say “sin” if you want.

            You’re really all fcked-up!

            HOW WEAK YOU ARE.

            Done with you. Enjoy the rest of your life! 😉

            Just “sharing” :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “President Yushchenko again emphasized that Ukraine does not accuse any
            nation or any state of the Great Famine. “We do not blame Russian nation
            for Holodomor, only the communist regime”,”

            — Since when does a politician tell me what to think??

            Am I some stupid Russo-mongolian or a “clever” :) Ruskie paid, lying troll?

            This is the best you stupid Russo-mongolians can “think” of?

            Not too stupid are you!

            A real Ruski! BAD ENGLISH, IGNORANT, UNEDUCATED, LIAR, STUPID!

            Incapable of honesty or thinking.

            Go troll your other places! :)

            You have a QUOTA TO MAKE! :)

            Go find some Ruski or something… they like to eat a lot of hemno. :)

            Stupid they are!

            72 YEARS OF COMMUNISM!!! :)

            MORONS!

            “P’tfu!” — I spit in your idiotic, lying, evil Russo-mongolian face!

            “P’tfu!” — I spit at your Khan Putin you Russo-mongolian slave!

            Get a REAL JOB!

            Learn to speak English you ignorant, uneducated Ruski!

            Go bark in Russian at your own dumb kind! Again, LEARN ENGLISH!!! So concerned with your consonant heavy, archaic, clumsy, ugly sounding dog language!

            Bark at Ruski! They’ll believe you! They’re stupid and Ruskie like you! :)

            Go fool someone! :)
            You @ssholes live for that… lying, evil people and “kultura”. :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “It is funny that you don’t realize the similarity you have to a lot of other typical remains of soviet zealots :)
            It does not matter who your type supports, the methods, the type of
            thoughts, the arguments – it all carries “made in USSR” sign you are
            incapable of removing.”

            Nah…. you don’t get it…. to directly address your above —- one just gets tired of hearing — “most high clever and the sneaky in the bad Anglish, Soviet BS from most smart Russo-mongolian types trying to fool you.”

            It’s like some dolt from an Eastern European village… — and nah’….. not someone who doesn’t know squat… but a more sophisticated readership… like say here… or Kyiv Post… You have essentially SOVIET buffoons from some BS commie society thinkin’ — “aha! I the smart Ruski!!! I be foolink all the stupit Westerners…” — That sort of BS… the most STUPID SH*T!!!

          • Yuriy
  • Yuriy

    To be fair, “St. George” ribbon is not a very good symbol as well. St. George ribbon was not used during WWII by nobody but Vlasov army. USSR started to use Guard ribbon, that is distinctively different in 1941.

    Here, you can see St. George ribbon on the left and Guard ribbon on the right.
    http://cdnimg.rg.ru/img/content/111/56/10/450333_default.jpg

    Here:
    Imperial Cross of St. George 3rd class 1807 – 1917 (enlisted award)
    http://read.images.worldlibrary.net/articles/images/thumb/7/72/Cross_of_St_George_3rd_class.jpg

    Soviet Medal “For Victory over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945”
    http://read.images.worldlibrary.net/articles/images/thumb/a/a6/Za_pobedu_nad_germanie.jpg

    Later, in 1992, Russia reestablished the Order of Saint George IV class:
    http://read.images.worldlibrary.net/articles/images/thumb/5/5f/Order_of_St._George%2C_4th_class_RF.jpg

    • Murf

      To honor his memory is a noble thing. I think he would be proud of you.
      It is not the courage and incredible sacrifice of the soviet soldiers Ukraine is distancing them selves from but the vile deeds of the Soviet leadership.
      I would say the same thing about the German soldiers any other soldiers who fought for their land and people.

      • Brent

        Then the current Russian neo-Soviet government should be the one you hate.

    • disqus_aJpixObjG7

      This is a russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian libelous declaration. You are NOT A UKRAINIAN rather you are a russian troll using a Ukrainian name!
      Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

  • Murf

    It good to see the war in the east getting a full telling.
    It is also good to see the nature of the Ukraine/Polish relationship. All the Trolls want you to know is the conflicts.

    • Gryzelda Wrr

      The nature of Polish-Ukrainian relations is so complicated that it would be perhaps better for us to skip over it and focus on the future :) It’s best visible in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychakiv_Cemetery. I had a great time wandering between the Polish and Ukrainian military parts of the cemetary and eavesdropping what Polish ad Ukrainian guides were saying. The most popular word among both Polish and Ukrainian groups was: “diplomacy” :)

      There is a kind of tension – as in a family meeting with a record of quarrels about family silver – but there is also a great deal of good will. The wounds have to heal and the process was not possible under the USSR rule. I don’ know how the Soviets achieved it, but they managed to rub salt int everybody’s wounds in Eastern Europe. We were all promising everlasting friendship t the USSR but alliances between the other allies were not possible. Divide et impera.

      I noticed it years ago. In 92 i wet with my classmates to Slovakia. It’s only about 20 km from my home. We all felt that the Slovakian people didn’t like us. Now i go to Slovakia every couple of months, in my tow there are lots of Slovakian people who come to spend their euros in our shops, and we smile to each other. What has changed? Not the history i guess.

      • Melp

        this would also explain the miracle that ie in east germany the percentage of nationalists is higher than in west germany.

        one of our politicans said once this

        “I can not imagine that the highest degree of love for the homeland is thereby documented that one become obsessed in hatred against those who have taken possession, and that slandered those who agree to a reconciliation .. Perhaps this is the highest degree of love: to love without possessing. ”

        – Marion Dönhoff: Childhood in East Prussia

        • Gryzelda Wrr

          Oh, the Gräfin Dönhoff as we call her:) She was an extraordinary person. Thanks to people like her or Bartoszewski the reconciliation between Germany and Poland was possible..

          The same process between Poland and our eastern neighbours would be not possible without the influence of the intellectuals who collaborated with the Polish émigré magazin “Kulura paryska”.

          “Kultura played a major role in Poland’s reconciliation with Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania, as the first independent Polish intellectual circle to openly advocate, in the 1950s, recognizing Poland’s postwar eastern borders. This involved renouncing Poland’s claims to Lwów in favor of a future independent Ukraine, and to Wilno in favor of a future independent Lithuania.

          The concept of supporting the independence of Poland’s eastern neighbors, elaborated by Juliusz Mieroszewski and known as “ULB” (from Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus), has had a major influence on Poland’s foreign policies since 1989.”

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kultura

          • Melp

            he died ten years to early. i liked his interviews. it was lastly not so much about polish-german relations, but he gave hints for the role of germany in the world. so he tried to gave us some courage.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            Do you ever talk to Belorussians, Your Majesty? If yes, do you use such ridiculous term as ‘Old Ukrainian’ referring to the old language?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            No, talking to Belarusians I use the term “Old Soviet language”. Satisified?

          • Sergey Tokarev

            Almost. What kind of rot makes people like you, Your Majesty?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            The same as good wine. You don’t have it in the USSR-bis.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            So you are kind of ashamed of smearing Red Army soldiers. Apparently you realize that you had gone too far, and it was vulgar. What kind of a rot makes you write this garbage, talking to imbeciles like Mr. Chmilevsky? Do you really hope to annex huge territories? Why do you need them?

          • Sergey Tokarev

            I don’t live in EU – USSR-bis, and we do have good vines, any vines, albeit they are much more expensive here. (Lipspalm)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            I suppose that everything eatable is expensive in the USSR now. You should try crude oil. It has lots of calories :)

          • Sergey Tokarev
          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Here you go. You will find my comment at RI.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            And talking to Lithuanians? How do you call the same language when you talk to Lithuanians?

      • Murf

        I am glad to hear that the old grudges are fading. Time heals all wounds I guess.
        As an outsider I am always looking to understand the interplay between the various countries. On thing I was interested in was how many Ukrainians fought for the Poles and the Western Allies. Even though there has been a “complicate” relationship, both countries have had times of mutual benefit. I hope that can continue in the future.

        • Gryzelda Wrr

          There must have been a reason why we were together as well as a reason why we split :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            See also my reply to Murf above as well.

            Re: Your post.

            There was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON at all to be “together.”

            Who wants to be effectively, slaves, or to have their family or themselves to raped and/or beaten and tortured? The Polish Commonwealth evidently greatly liked such and to spread such upon free people.

            Left to themselves, Ukrainians lived freely and also worshiped freely, nor did they burn their own books, or ban their own language, close schools, and fostered the spread of ignorance and illiteracy for the perverted and savage benefit of the Polish Commonwealth or the Russian Empire.

            The very first Constitution, in history was developed and formulated in Ukraine, 70 years ahead of the U.S.

            It was unfortunate, that Ukraine was next to two very vicious, savage and primitive peoples, the Poles and the Russo-mongolians.

            That’s not a bias on my part. Merely unpleasant and truthful history. For the way things are, are the way things are.

            Fighting either for the Poles, or the Russians, was entirely wrong. The Germans would have been a more logical choice, for they were opposed to both the evil Polish and Russian Empires of that time.

            Germany attempted to form an alliance with Poland for 5 years in order to attack the hated and evil Judeo-Bolshevik Union as they were regarded by the Germans.. As Stalin also attempted to form an alliance with the Poles.

            Germans also wished to end the documented brutalization of Germans in Poland and to have a corridor to the very German city and port of Danzig, a German island in Poland, isolated by the ridiculous treaties after WW1, which actually created a Polish empire and further enslaved Ukrainians, this time under the vicious Poles.

            At this point in time, the Poles were brutalizing not only the Germans, but the Ukrainians and Lithuanians as well.

            And this, just before WW2. A very savage and brutal, not exactly far thinking people. Just like Russo-mongolians really.

            Poles will like to play the innocent virgins and the victims before the Germans and Russo-mongolians. They are not. A cruel, violent and evil people, whose only claim to fame, if you wish to term such, is to say, “we’re not as bad as the Russians.”

            That’s a great achievement to hear them talk, that is, when not playing the innocent virgin.

            Not being as bad as the Russo-mongolians is hardly an achievement except by Polish standards! Don’t let them fool you, for in terms of history, they are horrible and evil swine!

            They could never think ahead till very lately and continually loved to attack and brutalize all their neighbors and try to force people around them to speak that very nasty sounding language of theirs, while brutalizing and raping them. HARDLY AN INDUCEMENT! And they seem to be most surprised at that! Rather like Russo-mongolians that way.

            Very unpleasant types historically speaking. Always betraying everyone around them. Always!

            “P’tfu!” — I spit!

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            “There was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON at all to be “together.””

            Oh, God, are you saying that people who signed the Union in Krewa on behalf of Grand Duchy of Lithuania were ídíots? Too bad for you.

            “Demum etiam Jagalo dux saepedictus promittit terras suas Litvaniae et Rusiae coronae regni Poloniae perpetuo applicare.”
            Castle of Kreva, 14th Aug. 1385.

            You see? We still have the contract :) I know that Russians lost the one signed with Chmielnicki in Pereyaslav 😀

            http://oszmianszczyzna.pl/krewo_foto/unia_w_krewie_tekst_lacinski_i_polski.pdf

          • Nomid

            You took that pretty nicely (;

            Then again.. If somebody made the same tirade about my ancestors raping and pillaging their way through England and down through France and europe.. I waould propably do a little shrug myself, history is a bit more complicated than that….

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Andrew likes torturing me. He probably thinks it is a fair revenge for centuries of Polish oppression:)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Incorrect!

            A rosy and DISHONEST view of history is very annoying.

            You excuse much, for your very NASTY, and VICIOUSLY evil, sexually perverted, slave ridden Polish “Commonwealth.”

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            My vision of history is neither rosy nor dishonest.

            The sexually perverted and slave ridden Athens were homeland for Aristotle, Plato And Socrates, Phidias, Pericles and DEMOCRACY.

            The Commonwealth had its dark side but had as well its great achievements. Part of them are Lithuanians, Belarusians and Ukrainians’ legacy.

            Pity it was forgotten. If the enlightened constructors of United Nations had known the history of the Commonwealth, we wouldn’t have a crazy Putin with the veto right in the Security Council. What I am saying is that it’s better to know history than to repeat cliches, my dear Andrew.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You CLUMSILY wrote:

            “The sexually perverted and slave ridden Athens were homeland for Aristotle, Plato And Socrates, Phidias, Pericles and DEMOCRACY.”

            I am not impressed! Socrates, were you better informed, might be impressed by his faggotry. Did his story, of how he seduced and had sex with a little boy please you? — Ahh!!! It was WORTH IT you probably would say!!! — I, unlike you, am not so “Polish” — so “politically correct” nor so easily impressed by DEPRAVITY….. Perhaps you would sexually trade your family for a poem or two?

            And you put, in caps no less in your above: “The sexually perverted and slave ridden Athens were homeland for …. DEMOCRACY.”

            OMG !!! Be still my heart! And in caps! — “DEMOCRACY” !!!! WOW!!!

            Sell your @ss for THAT BS my dear! I won’t!

            You must be very cheap indeed and most easily impressed! STUPIDLY in point of fact! “DEMOCRACY”!!!! — ALL BOW!!!! Worth being beaten, and sexually abused for eh? — Or the Polish Commonwealth — for some Polish poem or so? 😉

            ARE YOU HIGH OR MERELY THAT DULL MY DEAR?

            Be quick to trade your “sexually perverted and slave ridden” Polish Commonwealth for — (drum roll!!!) “DEMOCRACY”…. but it wasn’t “democracy” now was it? — AND IF IT WERE…. IT’S STILL A VERY, VERY POOR AND HORRIBLE TRADE…. ISN’T IT? YES OR NO?

            IS ANYTHING WORTH SLAVERY AND SEXUAL DEPRAVITY….. by **POLES** no less? ANYTHING???

            Get a grip my dear… for your family…. and for you…. yes… evidently, they’re CHEAP ENOUGH…. no one else is… Ah!! — Russo-mongolians are…. both Poles and THEM are CHAUVINISTIC enough…. HORDE LIKE…. soulless…
            and equally annoying at times…

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            It was democracy in the same meaning as in Athens: a democracy for up to 10% of the population :) With your Ruthenians representatives in both chambers of the Parliament. Not that bad actually as for XV, XVI and XVII :)
            Just out of curiosity: were Russians less sexually deprived? 😉

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “It was democracy in the same meaning as in Athens: a democracy for up to
            10% of the population :)

            The SCUMMY, SEXUALLY PERVERTED, SLAVE MAKING Polish Commonwealth, didn’t even have THAT LITTLE, did it my dear?

            ” With your Ruthenians representatives in both
            chambers of the Parliament. Not that bad actually as for XV, XVI and
            XVII :)”

            Oh? And how many?
            As many as Poles? 😉

            When did I decide upon it?
            When did they campaign for my vote?
            And MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHY SHOULD I BE ENSLAVED AND HAVE SOME POLISH HOMOSEXUAL OR OTHER KIND OF PERVERT TRYING TO EXPLOIT MY LABOR OR HAVE POLISH SEX WITH ME, IF I DON’T WANT TO BECAUSE THAT DISGUSTING, IDIOTIC, PERVERTED POLE WANTS TO MAKE ME HIS PHYSICAL AND SEXUAL SLAVE BECAUSE HE FEELS “ENTITLED” BECAUSE HE HISSES IN THAT NASTY POLISH LANGUAGE AT ME?
            ARE YOU HIGH??

            And then he’ll forbid my speaking my language, reading a book, because Poles hate book in general, so will CLOSE SCHOOLS…… ban my language, etc….. and then read AT ME, some nasty Polish poem, and try to convince me that THAT BS is part of my “legacy”.

            You shouldn’t do so much cocaine my dear!

            “Just out of curiosity: were Russians less sexually deprived? ;)”

            No. Same scum as you Poles were an that regard AND **ARE** IN PRAISING THE SOME DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR, and they also “feel” just as “ENTITLED”… and YOU try to convince me, that such is also my “legacy” and implicitly and most STUPIDLY state, I am also inferior as you do by promoting such BS!

            I do NOT “feel” at all “inferior” to you my dear…. as you well know…. I do suggest you drop your foolishness about that DISGUSTING, “Polish Commonwealth”…. You have NEVER been able to “sell” it as you know…

            And you look VERY, VERY “dull” when you attempt to.

            A rather odd view on such, given that you claim to be BOTH a Marxist AND a feminist.

            Sure you are…. sure you are my dear!
            In Poland maybe :)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            It was not Polish Commonwealth. It was a Commonwealth of Both Nations. You were first incorporated to the Duchy of Lithuania. Do claim for your damages to the Lithuanias:) Mosty of the perverted magnates were Ruthenians or Lithuanians.

            After the 1569 union the lower house was composed of 170 deputies. Here is the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_precedence_in_the_Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth

            As you see quite a lot of the deputies came from places that are in Ukraine today. Many from Lithuania too. I am to lazy to do the math.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “It was not Polish Commonwealth. It was a Commonwealth of Both Nations.”

            I am incredulous that you dare to continue this!

            This is why the Lithuanians and Ukes both so dearly loved Poles for centuries as you well know… That amazingly ignorant arrogance and self-centeredness.

            I NOTE, the MANY, MANY points you have heretofore IGNORED and EVADED in this thread. Fools me not.

            Why is that pray tell my dear?
            Does your “sell” for sexual and physical enslavement for the glory of Poland sound rather …. stupid you think? :)

            Who would not indeed wish to be enslaved and/or DIE or not have one’s wife or children sexually molested by some Pole for the chance, to possibly have a POLISH POEM come from such! How marvelous! You must be insane! But maybe in your family…. yeah, yeah… for Poles… sure… sure…. slave people… slave, insect mentality…

            You wrote: “After the 1569 union the lower house was composed of 170 deputies. Here is the list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O…As you see quite a lot of the deputies came from places that are in Ukraine today. ”

            AH!! — “came from places that are in Ukraine today. ”

            You had many representatives of the Nazi Army from many, many, more places in Poland. Why complain? :)

            Now…. from your link above:
            “ecclesiastical, that is the entire Roman Catholic episcopate (all bishops and archbishops) of the Commonwealth” — SINCE WHEN ARE Ukes and Belarus ROMAN CATHOLIC? :) POLES ARE! — Poles have the religion of child abusers and homosexual priests! Don’t you know that? It’s a POLISH RELIGION to have that! They’re DISGUSTING!

            I bet you are Catholic, aren’t you? Are you a POLISH CATHOLIC? 😉
            Well…. that would explain many, many things… 😉

            Have you read the series? — “Father Tucker, child f’cker”? — Rather funny tales of the adventures of a a Catholic priest. You Poles would undoubtedly enjoy such it appears. Judging by your morals….

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I see NO “bright side” to your DISGUSTING “Polish Commonwealth” my dear.

            “The Commonwealth had its dark side but had as well its great
            achievements.”

            WHAT “great achievements” ARE THERE PRAY TELL? :)
            Please delight, impress, amaze and astonish me? ….. I’m waiting….

            ” Part of them are Lithuanians, Belarusians and Ukrainians’
            legacy.”

            Child rape, general rape, sodomy, and other Polish sexual perversions, along with slavery, a BANNING on using one’s own language, book burnings, worshiping in a Christian manner, but NOT THE POLISH CATHOLIC MANNER, was persecuted, punished, etc…. UNLESS YOU WERE A JEW…. Poles ALLOWED THE JEWS TO WORSHIP…. but NOT their “fellow Christians” — whom they ENSLAVED, beat and tortured and abused….
            as you wrote above: “Part of them are Lithuanians, Belarusians and Ukrainians’
            legacy.”

            I do NOT want to hear a lousy “Polish poem”….. in EXCHANGE for THAT…. to you… it’s most wonderful… for me, it’s just SH*T…. what is it that you are so DULLY INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING my dear? Were you sexually abused as a child by Poles? What’s your problem here?

            Any NORMAL person would understand. Why is it that you don’t?

            Want a poem or something for an “exchange”? What’s wrong with you Gryzelda? You are so chauvinistic it’s sick!

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            For example this:

            “We the secular and ecclesiastical Counselors of the Crown , the entire gentry , and the other estates of the one and indivisible Commonwealth, from Great and Little Poland, from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Kiev, Wolyn, Podlasie, from Ruthenia, Prussia, Pomerania, Samogitia, Inflanty and the crown citie. We announce to all to whom this pertains that this matter may be eternally remembered [ad perpetuam rei memoriam], that at this dangerous time, lacking the authority of a reigning monarch, we have all sedulously attempted at the Warsaw meeting, as an example to our descendants to maintain and observe among ourselves peace, justice, order and the defense of the Commonwealth. Therefore, we swear and commit ourselves, according to our faith, our good will, and our conscience.
            (…)
            And whereas in our Commonwealth there are considerable differences in the Christian religion [jest dissidium niemale in cause religionis christianae], these have not caused disorders among people, as detrimental as have begun in other kingdoms that we have clearly seen, we promise to one another, for ourselves and for our descendants, for all time, pledging our faith, honor and conscience, we swear, that we who are divided by faith, will keep peace among ourselves, and not shed blood on account of differences in faith or church, nor will we allow punishment by the confiscation of goods, deprivation of honor, imprisonment or exile, nor will we in any fashion aid any sovereign or agency in such undertakings. And certainly, should someone desire to spill blood on such account we all shall be obliged to prevent it, even if the person uses some decree as pretext or cites some legal decision.
            (…)
            All ecclesiastical officials who enjoy royal benefits, such as archbishops, bishops, and all others similar, will be granted these prerogatives equally: to clergy of the Roman church and to those of the Greek church as both are by law Polish citizens.

            (…)
            All these things we solemnly swear to uphold and maintain for ourselves and our descendants, by our faith, honor and consciences . And whosoever should wish to oppose this and damage the peace and order of the people we shall all rise up in condemnation against such action.

            And for greater surety all those signing this document offer their seals and sign in their own hands.

            Done in Warsaw in the General Assembly of the Realm [Actum Varschoviae in conventione Regni Generali] the twenty-eighth of January, the year of Our Lord 1573.”

            http://www.unesco.org/new/en/communication-and-information/flagship-project-activities/memory-of-the-world/register/full-list-of-registered-heritage/registered-heritage-page-8/the-confederation-of-warsaw-of-28th-of-january-1573-religious-tolerance-guaranteed/

            Just an example of how this dark dark Commonwealth was a bit more enlightened than most of Western Europe o that time.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            But they LIED, didn’t they my dear? :)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            No, they did not. They were scared that the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre could happen in Poland too. 1/6 of Polish gentry confessed Lutheranism, Calvinism or belonged to Polish Brethern. The philosophy of Polish Brethern insipred the Founding Fathers :) As you see, it’s not easy to escape Poland:)
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Brethren#Influence_in_the_United_States

            Of course, the Contrreformation fckd it all up:(

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            They LIED as far as the Ukes and Belarus were concerned….DIDN’T THEY?

            Given that most of them are Orthodox…… and NOT POLISH…. So how were ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS TREATED BY THOSE POLES??

            So much for “Commonwealth” — “religious tolerance” that you dare to boast of!!

            It was indeed a POLISH Commonwealth. Which is why the Lithuanians, Belarus and the Ukes were not very pleased by such. Formally called the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by you know perfectly well, who controlled such totally. And why the Lithuanians to this very day, hate Poles. Can you blame them? Can any intelligent person not hate Poles? 😉

            Even the Russians hate Poles! — AND THEY ARE EXACTLY LIKE THEM!!!
            Not racially…. but in their ***ATTITUDE*** — that marvelous *ATTITUDE* towards people.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Speaking about Orthodox Church in Ukraine, during the Commonwealth it was as pro-Moscow as it is now:) We invented the Union of Brest to counter the Moscow’s influence. And the king granted to the Greek-Catholic clergy all the rights and privileges that belonged to the catholic priests. To become a bishop of the Greek-Catholic church you must have been Ruthenian. I think in current situation in Ukraine you would be much better if the Union had been more successful :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “Speaking about Orthodox Church in Ukraine, during the Commonwealth it
            was as pro-Moscow as it is now:) ”

            Not from my readings. It may indeed be possible in instances. However, the Poles sought to FORCIBLY convert (no, not their friends the Jews — but their “fellow Christians”) Ukes & Belarus to being Catholic as part of the plan to POLONISE them. So in tandem with making the people (Ukes & Belarus) as ignorant and illiterate as Poles, and force them to speak Polish, the “logical next step” would be to make them have the same “religion”. However, the Catholic Ukes, still supported the Ukrainian culture and language so that din’t work. Also, the Poles thought they could make Ukes sexually as perverted as Poles and into child molesters and altar boy seducers like they were. Fortunately, the Ukie Catholic priests fought fiercely for the right to remain married and not be like the Polish homosexual priests. (Your child molesting, homosexual Polish religion is disgusting btw! But not my right to force you to change, is it?)

            “We invented the Union of Brest to
            counter the Moscow’s influence.”

            NO! IT WAS DONE TO ATTEMPT TO POLONIZE UKES! AND TO HAVE A SEXUALLY DEGENERATE PEOPLE AND RELIGION LIKE POLES DO!!!

            “And the king granted to the
            Greek-Catholic clergy all the rights and privileges that belonged to the
            catholic priests. To become a bishop of the Greek-Catholic church you
            must have been Ruthenian.”

            AND A HETEROSEXUAL!!!
            You should be careful to ADD THAT!
            For some people, not Poles of course, it’s important.

            Or do you have a problem with that?

            ” I think in current situation in Ukraine you
            would be much better if the Union had been more successful :)

          • puttypants

            Andrew do you think this diatribe against Poland serves the Ukrainian war with Russia well? I don’t think it does. Do not bite the hand that has tried to help.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            History, should not be forgotten, nor distorted.

            Regarding your question?
            Truth about past history does not nor should not harm.

            “NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGIVE!”

            The above is not my view. However, as Santyana put it well: “Those who fail to remember history, are doomed to repeat it.”

            From your readings in Ukie history, it was REMARKABLE how often EVERY SINGLE TREATY WITH POLAND AND RUSSIA WAS BROKEN AND VIOLATED… This is mere history…

            Perhaps some people should remember their history better you think? Might help you think?

            Maybe not let their military get run down? Might be a good idea? Know who you can trust? How far? How long? — Perhaps to think a bit? — To REMIND PEOPLE of things?

            Doesn’t hurt… shouldn’t hurt… Forgiving — doesn’t mean being STUPID I don’t think…

          • kievjoy

            You do realise, don’t you, that Ukraine has 3 Orthodox Churches. Russian Orthodox Church, Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Moscow and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Kyiv. In the occupied areas the Ukrainian Orthodox church under Kyiv, is being persecuted by the Russian Orthodox Church.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Yes I know.
            I am writing about the Orthodox during the time of the Polish Commonwealth.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            In my rush… I edited after I posted and almost missed this… So in case you are replying more or less in “real time”
            behold!

            You LAST ROTE:

            ” I think in current situation in Ukraine you
            would be much better if the Union had been more successful :)

            Perhaps POLES should have thought ahead in 1919-20, do you think?

            == Addendum! You know very well what that refers to. Had not the Poles, been so concerned in attacking Ukraine after WW1, they wouldn’t have had ANY NEED to celebrate about “WE DEFENDED WARSAW FROM THE BOLSHEVIKS!!!” — Because A FREE UKRAINE WOULD HAVE DONE IT FOR THEM! — And there would NOT have been a SOVIET UKRAINE or a SOVIET UNION… and there would NOT have been a SOVIET attack on Poland…. etc… etc…. And I KNOW you know this… but most do not… Allow me to share this bit of knowledge my dear… That was ANOTHER, most intelligent “move” on Poland’s behalf, to attack Ukraine after WW1. Brilliant! Was it not?

            Nor besides all of the above, would there have been a Holodomor in Ukeland either… Nor any sort of “Polish People’s Republic” — right my dear?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            “Had not the Poles, been so concerned in attacking Ukraine after WW1, they wouldn’t have had ANY NEED to celebrate about “WE DEFENDED WARSAW FROM THE BOLSHEVIKS!!!” — Because A FREE UKRAINE WOULD HAVE DONE IT FOR THEM!”
            You see, we are a bit slow but we learn. Free Ukraine is defending us from Putin. I can’t reverse the clock unfortunately.
            I don’t agree with your interpretation of the Brest Union. If it was attempt to polonize you, we would insist on latin rite. The reasons were political first of all. But as I said, Contrreformation fckd it up. Not only Ukrainians were victims of it. Ask Spaniards what it meant. Polish Protestants sufferd as well.
            BTW: I agree that celibate is a kind of perversy:)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “I don’t agree with your interpretation of the Brest Union.”

            I should suggest my dear, you don’t quite know enough about it. Do you “think” the Poles would tell you Poles the Truth? — Maybe I might possibly know a bit more about it than what the noble and honest Poles told you?

            ” If it was
            attempt to polonize you, we would insist on latin rite.”

            WRONG!
            NO!
            NOT PRACTICAL!!!
            You had an ESTABLISHED HETEROSEXUAL Ukie and Belarus priesthood….. Far too RADICAL to get rid of them all and to do it that way!

            Nor were they about to stop having sex with their wives and do little boys like Polish priests do. So…. NO LATIN RITE! — Please think a little bit!

            Better to swear allegiance to the Pope… the more “flexible ones” you see… the more hard core… you can get rid of…. make them more — like you are!!! Being Catholic, was a BIG THING TO A POLE…. even if they weren’t homosexuals like Polish priests were… it was STILL — POLINIZATION and in keeping with ALL THEIR OTHER STEPS TO POLINIZE THE POPULATION AND TO PERVERT THEM INTO BEING LIKE POLES.

            ” The reasons were
            political first of all. But as I said,”

            WRONG! — Polinization WAS “political” was it not?

            Are not Poles also FIERCELY CATHOLIC AS WELL?

            Were there not ALSO other Polonizing actions?

            How many of the above are a “yes”?

            ” Contrreformation fckd it up. Not
            only Ukrainians were victims of it. Ask Spaniards what it meant. Polish
            Protestants sufferd as well.
            BTW: I agree that celibate is a kind of perversy:)”

            Immediate above is not relevant to the theme of Polinization of Ukes and Belarus, is it?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Ok, ok, I have an offer. I will learn history of Poland from Ukrainian books, but you will learn history of Ukraine from Polish books. You want to know the truth about Ukrainians, don’t you? You don’t think you wil find the truth about Ukrainians in Ukrainian books, do you? :)

            Contrreformation was relevant to history of Blarusians and Ukrainians. Directly relevant.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I just replied to another post of yours where I suggested in effect a “cease fire” on this exchange. Now I see this…

            In the interim, I was discussing the Holodomor with the “clever Ruskie troll” — “Yuriy” — now you come up again my dear…

            OK…. SOME Polish history… I do NOT wish to do a “university semester course” in Polish history… ok? Not my gig. Besides which, you seem to have that rather fierce Polish concept of Poland uber alles at most any cost — in terms of not so much modern history but rather the Polish Commonwealth.

            That period of time is what you are most stuck on for whatever romantic reasons you have for that time period. Again, no one can defend serfdom. Not at all. I really will avoid this time period with you.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            No one has defended serfdom since XIX century. Having agreed on this point, can we move a step forward in our Polish-Ukrainan polemic?

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You hath rote:
            “No one has defended serfdom since XIX century.”

            How astonishing you indeed are my precious!

            My little buttercup…. might I be so bold as to point out your defense of ancient “slave ridden” Athens, and it’s sexual abuses etc… for the GREAT ACHIEVEMENT (as per you) of 10% of the population) of most sacred — in caps no les, having most sacred “DEMOCRACY.”

            I DIRECTLY CHALLENGED YOU ON THAT and asked for what price you would sell yourself and/or your family for this holy concept of “DEMOCRACY” — (the ancient Athenian version — or for the :) depraved writings of Socrates, in describing (yes — this IS the exact term!) how he “socratized” a small boy.

            You EVADED REPLYING TO THIS AND OTHER RATHER AMUSING (for me anyway) SENTENCES… for some reason….

            Probably so you would not feel like a FOOL had you attempted to answer such, head on, as it were. 😉

            So…. thank you for saying SERFDOM, even in the most holy, POLISH COMMONWEALTH is NOT DEFENDABLE!!! Nor is it’s SPREAD OVER FREE PEOPLES… in exchange, for say…. some sort of (NASTY SOUNDING TO UKIE EARS! !) Polish poetry or such…. which I am most sure, you my delicate flower, would SWOON OVER… :)

            But you do not seem likely, to want your sister or brother burdened with serfdom for some Polish poetry….. unless I presume, the serfdom would be imposed on Ukes… How charitable and POLISH CATHOLIC you are indeed my dear!

            ” Having agreed on this
            point, can we move a step forward in our Polish-Ukrainan polemic?”

            I take it you YIELD on the point of SERFDOM SUCKS and that no one, not even the most glorious Polish Commonwealth should have IMPOSED SUCH on anyone, even if they are Ukes? That such is “not nice”?

            Very good! THANK YOU!
            There is nothing more to be said on the Polish Commonwealth, from a Ukie point of view, except to say it sucked! Perhaps Poles liked it?

          • puttypants

            Andrew I don’t believe you are a Ukkie to spew such hatred. Please don’t make all of Ukkie’s look this awful. Gry…if this guy is ukrainian I appologize for him. You have been veryhelpful on these sites taking on Putin’s gang. Thank you.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda will live…. rest assured puttypants! :)

            One of her family is a Roman Catholic priest…. :)

            “P’tfu!” — PLUYOU! (does that prove I’m Ukie? 😉

            So she should understand, very, very well I should think, regarding the Latin Rite of Polish Catholic priests.
            (P’tfu!)

            You can also read her review in the comment section under the story

            — She went to spy on a Ukie restaurant in Ukraine!

            http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/agence-france-presse-lviv-cafe-glorifies-anti-sovi-38537.html

            If the above link get messed up, use:
            http://tinyurl.com/lnl69hd

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Further note…. the Polinization process (religious, lingual, etc.) was occuring LONG BEFORE there was any concern with Moscow.

            They PUSHED Ukes to the Moskali. Didn’t they?

            The old, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

            Interestingly, Ukes and Poles didn’t even need to learn each other’s languages to communicate. Whereas, even then, Chmilnetsky needed TRANSLATORS to communicate with the Russians for the Treaty of Pereyaslav.

            That wasn’t good enough for the Poles… but they wanted to make Ukes into Poles… Control freaks, weren’t they now? — Not smart, was it?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            The Union of Lublin and direct incorporation of Ruhenia into the Crown of Poland. I don’t know how they could be so stupid to do it. It was a huge, huge mistake. The old-ukrainian was the official language of Duchy of Lithuania till 1699, but Ukraine was not part of it since 1569. Huge mistake indeed.
            What really killed the Ruthenian/old-Ukrainian as the official language was the Polish-Russian war that broke after your hetman signed the Pereyaslav treaty. It anihilated 50% of population of the Duchy.
            But it still seems awfully strange that anybody would forcifully polonize you in times when national state was not even invented…Most of the Jews who lived in Poland in the 20s and 30s of XX still did not speak Polish! They published books in jidish, made films in jidish.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I am sorry…. I do NOT understanding what you are saying here.

            Most of what you wrote above, I am not very familiar with. Almost nothing in fact.

            From a Ukie perspective on said Lublin Union, here’s the Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine:
            http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pagesLULublinUnionof.htm

            Got anything in English? For what you are refereeing to? — If not, that’s “ok” — not worth the effort.

            I believe we made our respective points. We are both aware of what was said, answered and/or what was not.

            Nor should such be a “contest”. Justice and fairness should prevail.

            Regarding the Jews, I wouldn’t say “Most of the Jews who lived in Poland in the 20s and 30s of XX still did not speak Polish!” — Not to the extent that you make such sound.

            The “stettel” was pretty isolated.. yeah… some…. but who knows how prevalent such was. Besides, Poles didn’t MESS with the Jews… despite being a very alien religion.

            They (Poles) DID make such efforts (to “mess with”) in terms of religion, serfdom, etc.. etc… with the Ruthenians/Ukes/Belarus.

            Not at all very “Christian” of them, but entirely Catholic indeed! And don’t ask me what sense that made and makes!

            For it’s disgusting as I am sure most would agree with me. As mentioned once, you would be very hard pressed, to defend serfdom. For the sake of a few Polish poems and false glory…. Shall we end this discussion? It’s really untenable. I mean…. In praise of what? — SERFDOM??? C’mon now! Lighten up please!

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Andrew, learn the history for god sake! How can you express your opinion on Polish rule over Ukraine if you don’t know what the Union of Lublin was?!

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Lublin

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I just gave you the above Ukie view of it above… in the link… ABOVE….

            Please do NOTE your above:
            “How can you express your opinion on Polish rule over Ukraine if you don’t know what the Union of Lublin was?!”

            Glad you put it THAT WAY! :) It bespeaks a great deal, does it not?

            “…Polish rule over Ukraine…”

            Wasn’t it supposed to be “my legacy here” and not only “Polish” — as per you? 😉 — BUT **US** — TOGETHER!!!! Errr…. I really don’t think so my dear…. 😉

            Now do note, from the LINK I GAVE YOU…. REGARDING THIS — WHICH UNFORTUNATELY DIDN’T QUITE DISPLAY CORRECTLY so I repeat it in this post:
            Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine:

            http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pagesLULublinUnionof.htm

            Here’s the tiny url form of the above:
            http://tinyurl.com/kt4eebz

            The quote below, is from the above link:

            “Thus the union gave Poland control over a large part of Ukrainian territory, where it proceeded to subjugate and exploit the indigenous population.”

            THAT — is the main point, now isn’t it? This is the Ukie view. I believe it’s quite enough.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Yes that’s the union. It was Polish rule over Ukraine after the Union of Lublin. And you were latinized and polonized. The serfdom in your part of the country was more sever tha in any other part of Poland. In fact itwas very close to the system of encomiedna in Spanish colonies. I am aware of all that. What pisses me off is that you are not aware of us being aware:)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Ok…. thank you for, after all this… saying that.

            Btw — I didn’t know that:
            “The serfdom in your part of the country was more severe than in any other part of Poland. In fact it was very close to the system of encomiedna in Spanish colonies.”

            So this horror wasn’t even “distributed” evenly. It really was treating the non-Polish population like scum…. as non-white, totally subhuman, alien scum. The white, Slavic, scum of Eastern Europe. Man, woman and child.

            So WTF did it take all that, so many pasts, over so long, to say, the Polish Commonwealth SUCKED for Ukes, Belarus, etc… and was especially brutal, nasty and horribly perverted and deviant.

            You wrote:
            “I am aware of all that. What pisses me off is that you are not aware of us being aware:) ”

            Evidently, for the longest time, judging by your posts, you didn’t give a damn or consider the human aspects, the horrors of such and what it implied.

            There is something very, very wrong about that.

            And talking about Athenian democracy, “great achievements” which I do not at all see, etc… did not at all impress me.

            Nor does what Norman Davies, have to say about it, or what you did via him, impress me at all. Rater it was painted not as a scene of horror, but as “a golden age of Poland… a time of art, poetry… blah, blah…”

            Something is very, very wrong in terms of all thinking about all this.

            And Norman Davies is perverted. But, he made his sales targets and found his Polish history market. And evidently his acolytes. Interesting.

            Rather like the old time commie viewe of “the collective.” Humanity be damned.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            One of the most important factors which determined the shape of Polish national identity was the Cracow School of Historians – a XIX school of historiography which explained the collapse of Poland with internal reasons.
            We flagellated ourselves with the crimes and defects of the Commonwealth for whole xix. You are late for the show, Andrew.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Ah, serfdom was not distributed evenly. It was especially cruel in magnates’ property, and most of the magnates had their latifundia in Ukraine. Most of them were of Ruthenian or Lithuanian origin. In king’s property serfodm was relatively bearable. My part of the country was freed from serfdom as a reward for peasants’ participation in a war against Swedes. So as you see there were many differences.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            Your Majesty! I haven’t heard recently of any new cases of rape of Poles – dead or alive – by Red Army soldiers. Please keep me updated. I hope you will. (Lipspalm)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            You must have me confused with somebody. Niether Red Army nor rapes are of my interest.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            I have not confused you with anybody. If libel is not of your interest, why do you spew it? You are pathetic, vulgar beach. I will ask such questions occasionally to remind you how vulgar you are. Regards.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Ah, now I see. You confused me with yourself :)

          • Sergey Tokarev

            Nope. You were mean but witty last time. Now you are mean and stupid. Try harder. Good luck.

          • puttypants

            You are Putler troll. Not sure why you’re in this conversation. This one is between ukkies and poles not russians so but out. Stop showing your chauvinism its very unappealing.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Sergey Tokarev is a rude, vulgar, LYING (of course!) stupid COWARDLY (he refused my wager — as he likes to OFFER wagers — on a point of recent history (with the money for said wager, to be wired in ADVANCE TO A NEUTRAL PARTY)…

            He regularly sexually harasses Gryzelda. — As he knows she is not entirely unattractive. :)

            Just a horny, lying, Russo-mongolian troll in short…

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Sergey Tokarev — kretin! Your good friend, Gryzelda Wrr… who likes to tell people, that she is:

            1) a Polish Marxist
            2) a Polish feminist
            3) a Polish Catholic

            I have had the dubious pleasure of a prolonged discussion on the wonderful “Polish Commonwealth” (P’tfu!) on this page. I am not a fan of rape, sexual perversion, exploitation, etc… etc… even if it leads to a the amazing cultural wonders of the (drum roll!!!) Polish Commonwealth.

            ===== begin:

            Gryzelda Wrr wrote, regarding the Russian Partition and occupations of Poland in pre-WW1 times the following:

            “Oh, please do tell me about that :) Please, tell me how Russian rule
            raised Polish culture, morals and intellectual standards :)

            Had
            you read more carefully, I informed you that I would NOT mention such,
            with the PROVISO that IF you exhibit the common decency and not attempt to “sell” that nasty, evil, degenerate Polish Commonwealth to the victims of that Polish rule and “culture”. Which is why, as you know,
            Poland was so greatly loved by all their neighbors for centuries.

            If you wish to know exactly how the Ruski IMPROVED YOU during that period for 200 years, in the part of Poland they had to take care of, I am sure EVERY Russian would be far, far more informed about it than me, and know MUCH MORE about it than me, and EXACTLY how.

            No doubt Sergey
            Tokarev could explain such to you…. in very good detail, how that
            occupation by the Tsars of Russia helped Poland in the ways mentioned. I
            know that one thing for sure, the Russians will say… they exposed you
            to and gave you the Russian language. For sure they will point that
            out… They do after all, call you “psheks” or whatever, for a reason,
            don’t they?

            I shall post a copy of this, for him, and I am sure, he can tell you how the Ruskie IMPROVED you. He would kno

            FOR SURE…. he’s the better man to ask…. don’t you think so my dear?

            Because
            I told you, I PREFER to NOT discuss, that (disgusting!) Polish
            Commonwealth that you are so very, very, proud of! (P’tfu!!)

            You know the Ukie opinion of such… So will you STOP with that Polish Commonwealth HAMSTVO of yours?
            Thank you in advance!

          • Sergey Tokarev

            My posts were unrelated to your discussion of Commonwealth, Andrew. Unfortunately I can’t talk to Gryzelda on KyivPost, where she has a habit of saying ridiculous things.
            I kindly asked Gryzelda to keep me updated with new cases of rapes of Poles by Red Army soldiers. As you know, the scale of these horrible crimes surfaced in 2005 – right after YUKOS affair. Apparently these crimes continue, and the evidence is mounting.
            It also surprised me that Grylelda called a language widely spoken in Lithuania, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine ‘Old Ukrainian’, even though Ukrainianism didn’t exist back then. She admitted that she called the same language ‘Old Soviet’ when talked to Belarussians, ignoring the fact that the language existed before Soviet Union.
            Apparently she would call English of Shakespeare ‘Old Australian’.
            What for the Commonwealth – I am with you. The Poles were oppressive. What for Russian occupation of Poland – I agree again. I doubt it brought any benefit to either Russia or Poland, especially Poland.
            Best regards.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “She admitted that she called the same language ‘Old Soviet’ when talked
            to Belarussians, ignoring the fact that the language existed before
            Soviet Union.”

            “Old Soviet” ?? — She must have just wished to torture you. She’s a little brighter than that.

            Re: Ukie — Closest language to Ukie, besides Belarussian of course (85% lexicon) is Polish at 70%. Russian is 60%…

            Other languages as per link below are closer to Ukie than Ruskie.

            The ones higher in relatedness to Ukie were interesting.

            The so-called East and West Slavic lingual groups are most foolish… POLITICAL BS…. actually.. as viewed in terms of which languages are closer to which…

            THAT should be the CORRECT “grouping”.

            btw — “gryzelda” look a LOT like her avatar — only blonde and not so “heavy looking” as the avatar — but NOT at all skinny 😉 (esp. not on top:)

            See:
            http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Ukrainian_language

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            She’s on this page… here are her comments on THIS PAGE — not KP.

            https://disqus.com/by/gryzeldawrr/comments/

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            The “old Soviet language” thing?

            She said she was obviously joking.. which of course she would be — she’s NOT an idiot.

            I figured YOU would be the man, to tell her EXACTLY how Russia improved Poland in Tsarist days, Polish Partition wise. :)

            Not my area there…

            Regards.

          • Sergey Tokarev

            Neither mine. Regards.

          • siania

            “What pisses me off is that you are not aware of us being aware:)”
            Perhaps we thought you were reluctant to acknowledge the severity of your rule and its lasting effects on language, culture…

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Wait, Siania.

            We don’t have problems with admitting that our crazy magnates entertained themselves shooting to peasants and that the system which made it possible was deficient. Bu the lasting ffects on language and culture we simply don’t know. Not because of particularily bad will…

            YOU have to tell us what the lasting effects were . Finally we are ready to listen.

          • siania

            I have no wish to argue or incite anger.

            Please explain where you learned that “we are not aware of your being aware”?

            What/when/where “crazy magnates entertained themselves shooting at peasants”?

            Which “system which made it possible was deficient” ?

            Once you clarify the foregoing , I will respond to language/culture issue.

            z poshanoyu
            siania

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            It was a reply to Andrew Chmilewsky. He tries to persuade me that I am a fan of serfdom:) Which is so absurd that I feel humiliated that I have to deny it. It should be obvious for anybody who does not consider me mentally ill.
            90% of Polish population are descendants of peasantry, most of our ancestors were serves. We identify with the nobiliary culture only to some (limited) degree. We were its victims as well. The xix saw a process of spreading the values of nobiliary culture among the lower classes, but the ruling class paid for it with losing their economic power. Polish nobility transformed into intelligentsia, which at the beginning was mainly composed of people of noble or Jewish roots. But as soon as in the interwar period intelligentsia has been greatly democratized a process accelerated by the Stalinist persecutions during and after the ii world war.
            I am describing these social changes in Polish society, because I want you to know that in this Polish-Ukrainians dispute we are not at the same position as we were -let’s say- 70 years ago. It was also a class conflict. Perhaps it was a class conflict first of all?
            Pozdrawiam :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Any support for the Polish Commonwealth, is in effect, support for imperialism and slavery and is hostile towards human freedom.

            It’s indirectly, a call for sexual depravity, Polish culture, slavery, savagery etc.. This is wrong.

            This is a very traditional Polish view. You attempt to justify such by yammering about the great “achievements” of this backward, sexually deviant and depraved Polish Commonwealth and it’s inhuman and horribly perverted and disgusting culture and laws.

            What you call great “achievements” as far as anyone normal and not Polish can see, is merely slavery, misery, and some Polish poetry, and child molestations, torture, etc… Not what I would call great achievements. Perhaps for Poles though.

            Also the Poles were pushing and spreading homosexuality into Ukraine
            and Belarus, nor can you deny this, as it’s well documented.
            Many people consider such disgusting. Evidently, not you.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Let’s burn this earth because there is so much pain on it.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda ROTE: ”

            Let’s burn this earth because there is so much pain on it.”

            Not any pain in it for me… just some facts about it, but…
            Agree!
            WITH ONE PROVISO!

            That you not, praise, or urge to hold in high regard, for Ukes, Belarus, Lithuanians, Latvians, etc… this (to many) unpleasant (for many) Polish Commonwealth.

            And in return, I shall not speak of how much the Russians did for Poland, improved your culture, your morals, raised the intellectual standards, built Poland up and urge you to praise the Russian Empire occupation of Poland and to tell you of how many great things were done during the time you were occupied by Russia.

            For I do believe, it’s the equivalent of how you “thought” Ukes, etc. should regard the Polish Commonwealth.

            Rather… a difficult concept to “market” to anyone… anyone that is not a Pole or even vaguely familiar with East European history. Clearly Norman Davies isn’t. But then again, he does play his “Polish market” shrewdly…. not really but shrewdly enough for their VERY simple minded egos. :)

            Perhaps you should learn some about E. Europe?
            East Europe is NOT all about and just about Poland you know, despite what they taught you in school.

            And I see you totally believed them! 😉

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            “And in return, I shall not speak of how much the Russians did for Poland, improved your culture, your morals, raised the intellectual standards, built Poland up and urge you to praise the Russian Empire occupation of Poland and to tell you of how many great things were done during the time you were occupied by Russia.”

            Oh, please do tell me about that :) Please, tell me how Russian rule raised Polish culture, morals and intellectual standards :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda Wrr wrote, regarding the Russian Partition and occupations of Poland in pre-WW1 times the following:

            “Oh, please do tell me about that :) Please, tell me how Russian rule
            raised Polish culture, morals and intellectual standards :)

            Had you read more carefully, I informed you that I would NOT mention such, with the PROVISO that IF you exhibit the common decency and not attempt to “sell” that nasty, evil, degenerate Polish Commonwealth to the victims of that Polish rule and “culture”. Which is why, as you know, Poland was so greatly loved by all their neighbors for centuries.

            If you wish to know exactly how the Ruski IMPROVED YOU during that period for 200 years, in the part of Poland they had to take care of, I am sure EVERY Russian would be far, far more informed about it than me, and know MUCH MORE about it than me, and EXACTLY how.

            No doubt Sergey Tokarev could explain such to you…. in very good detail, how that occupation by the Tsars of Russia helped Poland in the ways mentioned. I know that one thing for sure, the Russians will say… they exposed you to and gave you the Russian language. For sure they will point that out… They do after all, call you “psheks” or whatever, for a reason, don’t they?

            I shall post a copy of this, for him, and I am sure, he can tell you how the Ruskie IMPROVED you. He would kno

            FOR SURE…. he’s the better man to ask…. don’t you think so my dear?

            Because I told you, I PREFER to NOT discuss, that (disgusting!) Polish Commonwealth that you are so very, very, proud of! (P’tfu!!)

            You know the Ukie opinion of such… So will you STOP with that Polish Commonwealth HAMSTVO of yours?
            Thank you in advance!

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            No way! I am desperately curious to know how Russian rule improved Poland:) The argument with Russian language is not valid. They gave us Russian language but we refused to take it :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Look…. I posted a copy of what I wrote earlier to your charming and good Ruski friend, Segey Tokarev, as he appears to most anxious to discuss rape and the Red Army with you.

            I am certain he will come up with all the answers you are seeking.

            But I DO make note… AGAIN, your constant (almost) EVADING and not at all ANSWERING certain points about your wondrous Polish Commonwealth.

            At the least, you did acknowledge, regarding the forced conversion to be “Catholic” (EASTERN RITE AT LEAST) that you do not agree with celibacy for Catholic priests.

            That was as far as you went, regarding ANYTHING AT ALL, I had to write, regarding Polinization, the horrors of Polish rule (MISRULE actually) etc.. etc.

            If you wish to AGAIN, (snicker, snicker) ASTONISH all your Ukie female friends here, who have JUMPED ON ME, for not being “nice” to you… Go impress them, with ALL THE GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS of the POLISH COMMONWEALTH and how wonderful it was for Ukes, to be under the blessings of Polish rule, and “culture” and “law.”

            Give them a Polish poem or two while you’re at it! :)

            Surely they will be as “impressed” as you and Norman Davies are by the GOLDEN AGE OF THE POLISH COMMONWEALTH and the loveliness of Polish serfdom and culture. :)

            Rather the primitive, Ruskie-like, “HA! HA! — WE HAVE MUCH TERRITORY!!! MUCH LAND!!! WE RULE MUCH!!! HA! HA! We have POLISH POEMS!!! HA!! MANY POLISH NAMES I CAN GIVINK YOU ABOUT THAT TO ROVE OUR GREATNESS! HA!”

            I am not so impressed by such… Now will you STOP your savage CHAUVINISM?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            I will not quote any poet. I will quote a lawyer.
            “The peasant is not your slave, he is your neighbor.”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Frycz_Modrzewski

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Ah! The man liked Calvin a bit! Very good! Most advanced for a Pole!

            However, perhaps you should consider what you penned here. I agree with you here.

            Ah!!! I so-o-o-o miss the Roman Empire… the joys of the Colosseum! All that culture! It was worth it all!

            Just for the games in the Colosseum!
            The amazing scores in some of the games!
            Lions 10, Christians 0

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            The Polish Brethern are much more interesting than Calvinism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Brethren
            What Roman Empire, for god sake?

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Just an example…

            Polish Brethern…. surprised at the Priestly connection… that gets WEIRD..

            Talkin’ now to your boy Tokarev…. “old soviet language” he claimed you used once… that term…. Don’t think so… unless you were of course joking.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            of course I was :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I figured that… but amazingly… he took you seriously… or he pretended to or just wanted to make you (most likely) look like an idiot… — OR — he feels the “need” to “think” that… who knows…

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Polish Brethern — are just pretty much filthy heretics….

            Should be burned actually. :)

            Wouldn’t throw a match but I’d watch. :)

            Polish heretics anyway! :)

            Of course you would find them –Polish Brethern “interesting”… given all your heretical views… BESIDES being Catholic and rather — “unstudied”…

            Denying the trinity, etc.. is heresy of course. Praying TO anyone but God/Christ …. well… “thou shalt not have any other Gods before me.” — I have no Idea how God will JUDGE naive ignorance though… It could be MOST bad news for “the Mary cult Poles” :)

            I mean, EVEN, note “even” — “a young Polish nationalist” I knew… STUPID AS HE WAS…. called such “it’s like a kult!” (I didn’t know Polish had that word until I heard it from him btw.) —- DUM AS HE WAS… EVEN HE KNEW THAT MUCH… (and he WAS “not too swift.”.

            He did ask me about what I thought, about the “Protestant idea” — that Christ had brothers, sisters, etc… Like I told him… So what? — Mary was a normal woman… esp. in those times… no birth control… chances are she wanted to have normal relations, kids etc… no big deal about that…

            He didn’t say anything to that… It was something for him to think about in his Polish Catholic brain… but he DID HAVE A BIBLE!!!… (PROBABLY THE **CATHOLIC** BIBLE) … but nevertheless..) He did evidently use it somewhat… Most unusual for a Catholic for the most part! :)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Should be burned, my dear open-minded and tolerant friend? Interesting. They were free to confess their faith in the hideous Commonwealth :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            According to God they should “fry”… :)
            His final decision. Tell God about the Polish Commonwealth maybe?

            “They were free to confess their faith in the hideous Commonwealth :)

            Jews were too! Besides the heretics!
            But most odd about those Orthodox priests though…. Odd that they were FORCED TO BECOME CATHOLIC and swear fidelity to some Papal pervert in Rome.

            Jews, heretics… “ok” — not Orthodox… and most odd it seems…

            I mentioned the Orthodox before… you seem to FORGET about that in talking about “Polish Commonwealth religious freedom” as THE BIG ACHIEVEMENT there…

            Your great Polish Commonwealth was SH*T! — Get over it already!

            Go read some poem or something from that era…. :)
            I am sure both you and Norman Davies will drool and salivate in delight!

            Read one of the many, many, many, many Polish writers or poets of that time period you never really ever read or really heard of.

            Then tell me what A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT HE WAS!!! :)

            I think you should shut-up now.
            You appear rather stupid now.
            Not that you didn’t appear that way before my dear.

            You are an em-bare-ass-ment to the Polish Commonwealth you know.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Couldn’t provoke Tokarev into biting your @ss…

            Quote:

            Sergey Tokarev wrote, in response to Andrew Chmilewsky:

            My posts were unrelated to your discussion of Commonwealth, Andrew. Unfortunately I can’t talk to Gryzelda on KyivPost, where she has a habit of saying ridiculous things.
            I kindly asked Gryzelda to keep me updated with new cases of rapes of Poles by Red Army soldiers. As you know, the scale of these horrible crimes surfaced in 2005 – right after YUKOS affair. Apparently these crimes continue, and the evidence is mounting.
            It also surprised me that Grylelda called a language widely spoken in Lithuania, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine ‘Old Ukrainian’, even though Ukrainianism didn’t exist back then. She admitted that she called the same language ‘Old Soviet’ when talked to Belarussians, ignoring the fact that the language existed before Soviet Union.
            Apparently she would call English of Shakespeare ‘Old Australian’.
            What for the Commonwealth – I am with you. The Poles were oppressive. What for Russian occupation of Poland – I agree again. I doubt it brought any benefit to either Russia or Poland, especially Poland.
            Best regards.

            ===========
            However, I told him you’re not bad and look like your avatar only blonde and not as “heavy looking” as the avatar but not skinny either on big on top. :)

            So HE WILL torture you in the future… be most assured! You deserve it!

            Besides which… I noticed that you did do a SCORCHED EARTH POLICY retreat from the nasty Commonwealth… You have a very difficult time in changing your mind on things, don’t you?

          • Trueteller

            You have serious problems with sexuality. You are obsessed with sexual depravity,raping and homosexuality,just like you are obsessed with hate on catholicism. Try fix your sexual problem or you’ll finish in prison and please stop insult all Ukrainian Greek-Catholics and Catholics. Ukrainian Catholicism is keeper of Ukrainian identity,State,nation and people’s struggle for freedom,national and human rights. Be grateful if you are Ukrainian!

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You — are not only a MORON, but a *LIAR* as well.

            WHERE have I “and please stop insult all Ukrainian Greek-Catholics” ??!!!

            WHERE DID I “insult all Ukrainian Greek-Catholics” !!

            You are INDIRECTLY by your above, defending the EVIL Polish Commonwealth, which you are, by ignoring all its many sins, WHICH INTERESTINGLY YOU CATALOG ABOVE.

            So by my MENTIONING THE MANY CRIMES of those that would DEFEND the actions of the
            –Polish Commonwealth– and the SPREAD AND IMPOSITION OF SERFDOM you have a PROBLEM with?

            Like I said, you are a moron and a LIAR!

            I suggest you take some reading and logic lessons… Have a nice day!

          • Trueteller

            You are full of hate on Catholicism and serfdom which is clear influence of your Soviet education or your communistic family heritage. I feel sorry for you. Commonwealth was Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth and many Ukrainian historians recognize importance of Commonwealth for Ukrainian history,culture,religion,statehood,including good things just like terrible things…Get cool…

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Trueteller ROTE:

            “You are full of hate on Catholicism and serfdom which is clear influence of your Soviet education or your communistic family heritage. I feel sorry for you. ”

            Of course I despise serfdom and it’s massive enslavement of people and sexual abuse of women, children, and at times sexual abuse of other men and boys at times and the torture.

            Nor did I have a “Soviet education at all. I don’t need a “soviet education” to know the above is a very bad thing. Anyone with a brain that could think would know this.

            Regarding Catholicism? — The Roman rite version of such, with it’s homosexual, child abusing priesthood is a total biblical perversion. There are other biblical issues with such (MANY OTHERS) but that alone, along with it’s required sworn obedience, to some of the most perverted popes is not exactly a Christian act. I prefer the bible to Catholic (or Orthodox, etc.) doctrine, how about you?

            (AND WITHOUT THE SO-CALLED “APOCRYPHAL BOOKS” EITHER!)

            Catholicism is *unbiblical* — the Ukrainian Catholic rite — is of course a little better, for when the Poles were *FORCING* Ukes to be Catholic, the at the time Ukie Orthodox priests, said, ok, but we’re not getting divorced from our wives, and we won’t fuck each other up the @ss or little boys like your Polish priests. Which I think is a good idea. Poles were trying to spread homosexuality though their priesthood like they do in Poland you know. And that is against the bible, unless you’re a Roman Catholic priest I suppose.

            “Commonwealth was Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth and the most of Ukrainian historians recognize importance of Commonwealth for Ukrainian history,culture,religion,statehood,including good things just like terrible things…Get cool…”

            The Polish Commonwealth, (for it was PRIMARILY POLISH and near totally dominated by Poles) was NOT good at all for Ukie “history, culture, religion, statehood.” Nor was it good for Ukrainian schools, books, language, etc… AND NOT AT ALL GOOD FOR THE ONCE FREE PEOPLE THAT WERE ENSLAVED BY IT. I suggest you read a bit more about it.

            If you notice, the Polish Commonwealth Serfdom Freak, Gryzelda Wrr, who is UNABLE TO JUSTIFY AND RATIONALIZE this horrible, disgusting, very UGLY, sexually exploitative, torturing, murderous, enslaving Polish Commonwealth, up voted your comment here. Think about it. She has to run away from me about it, for she knows very well she can not defend it. How do you defend ENSLAVING OTHERS, trying to destroy the culture of others, murder, colonize, sexually abuse, mass rape others?

            For the “glory” of the Polish state? For the big and MOST EVIL AND STUPID Polish Commonwealth? — There was a REASON, many, many, why Ukrainians and Lithuanians (along with others in that “Commonwealth”) hated Poles.

            So when YOU, very IGNORANTLY claim it was PROMOTING of Ukie “history, culture, religion, statehood” you are DEAD WRONG!!! — Read a bit more… A LOT MORE…

            Because you are the first Uke that I have EVER, in my life, heard that liked that. Everyone else, always resented the enslavement and cultural destruction and cruelty and Polish savagery of such.

            There is a REASON why Gryzelda Wrr has to run away from discussions on such with me. You can find them… use google. She ALWAYS has to run away from it and can not “sell” or “market” the “glories” of such to me and has tried to have me look upon it as my “heritage”. :)

            It’s as much my “heritage” as when a Russo-mongolian tries to tell me Russia is when discussing the Holodymor of 1932-33 and also would, like you and Gryzelda Wrr, say something about such things like, “including good things just like terrible things…Get cool…”

            Don’t think so… don’t think so…. I prefer less SAVAGERY, ANIMAL BEHAVIOR and much more human freedom and to not be killed or abused… But you go right ahead and enjoy yourself with such.

            But don’t read anything!!! That’s not for you, anymore than thinking is. Study the chart below btw.

            Because you are as intelligent as any other Polish or Russo-Mongolian CHAUVINIST.
            And most obviously, I am not. Have a nice day! Give your daughter or sister or wife to some Pole or other to rape for awhile… Tell him how grateful you are… or find a Ruski if you prefer… I, unlike you, Gryzelda Wrr, or the Polish CHAUVINISTS or the Russo-mongolians, think Ukeland should be free and should never have been brutalized by animal-like savage, evil people.

            The Catholic Commonwealth Poles in this instance — I think of her as being very strange about this. YOU TOO!

          • Trueteller

            I already wrote I have no enough capability of English language to answer you. Nobody can deny your sharp sense for humor which you use as substitute for your ignorance about history and religion and like cover to hide your hate on Catholicism because of your latent(or not just latent) homosexuality and pedophilia…I am not ahte you because your father was secretary of Communist Party in your city block or because you are now new born proud member of cult with snakes and TV pastor…It makes me feel sick when I see you firm followers of Soviet Communist Party,working class revolution and Lenin glory how try sell “Ukrainianity” and Christianity to others.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I think that you and Putin should hang around with some nice Polish Roman Catholic priests, and/or maybe some people that also like the Polish Commonwealth like you do and Gryzelda Wrr…. She LOVES the Polish Commonwealth, like you. :)

            So she FINALLY found some Uke — (a homosexual from Croatia of course :) who LIKES the Polish Commonwealth!!! :)

            Very good! Are you an altar boy?

            The Polish “claim to fame” is — “we’re not so bad as the Russo-mongolians!!”

            That is VERY IMPRESSIVE!
            An EXCELLENT RECOMMENDATION and COMMENDATION!

            They were WORSE than the mongoloids — for CENTURIES pretty much until 1932-33.

            Only very lately have they improved.

            Either way, I am not as EASILY IMPRESSED as you seem to be with the Polish Commonwealth! And I think I know a *little* more about it. (It’s DISGUSTING!)

            You are clearly a deep thinker! Well studied in history! Most astute!

            The first Uke, that LIKED POLISH SERFDOM and all that went along with it, as opposed to freedom. May you have a Polish Roman Catholic priest go up your ass!
            Or a Croatian Roman Catholic priest! They both do the same thing you know.

            Try reading:

            Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine – Інтернетова …
            http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/

            Now do what you do.

          • Trueteller

            I am not reading your BS anymore,it’s wasting of time read your hate diarea. Cool off little.Why all that egomania? Maybe you sell stuff you use? I wanna be brainless idiot like you at least for a few hours! Tell to us what you use,be a friend,help to others blabling like you. We “pervert Catholics and homosexuals” from Croatia collect money,uniforms,equipment and volunteers for Ukraine since your mental and ideological fathers from Vatnikstan start aggression on Ukraine and you are blabling,blabling and blabling…Yes,you are the smartest,the most beautiful,the most moral,the most selfcritic,all the most handsome male models are your lovers and so on and on and on…Try take a pill and find some girl who won’t runnaway from you like all them before did it(I know you will show to them how you are important and how big is your dick and they will pay for all those stories about your homosexuality through your activities at public sites,hehehe…)…What a moron you are! Real example of inferior Russian mentality who want break with own family path because it’s now in be pro Ukrainian,hehehe

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You ROTE: ” We “pervert Catholics and homosexuals” from Croatia collect
            money,uniforms,equipment and volunteers for Ukraine since your mental
            and ideological fathers from Vatnikstan start aggression on Ukraine and
            you are blabling,blabling and blabling..”

            Very good! Thank you Croatia!

            Is it the “Ukes” in Croatia or the “real” Croatians as well that are supportive of Ukraine? Mass support? Some? Not many care? What?

            I do recall one Russian woman, years ago — during the war there, telling me that Croatians were no good. :)
            Of-course, Serbians were good. :)

          • Trueteller

            Real ethnic pure blood Croatians(which I am on of) are mass supportive of Ukraine which is absolutelly natural,understandable and moral.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You ROTE:

            “Real ethnic pure blood Croatians(which I am on of) are mass supportive
            of Ukraine which is absolutely natural,understandable and moral. ”

            I’m in NYC, so I don’t know about the above.

            “Croatian Ukrainians,including national minority and immigrants are
            active too…”

            Good detail.

            “Croatian Latin rite priests,bishops and “pervert
            homosexual child molester population”,and both Ukrainians, Latin rite
            and Eastern Catholic rite Ukrainians…”

            I have never heard of “Latin rite ‘Ukes'” ??
            Eastern (at times called “Greek”) rite, Catholic “Ukes” yeah…
            But “Latin rite ‘Ukes'” — is a new one for me… unless they just happen
            to go to those churches… possible, possible…

            “Haha…”

            Now it’s my turn to say, “lighten-up!”

            Thanks for the information. Ukraine Today, has probably “the best news”….
            but http://www.KyivPost.com has some stuff there as well.
            Mostly what they do at Kyiv Post is collect links from everywhere else.
            They do have some of their own writers of course.

            If it’s interesting, the links (good links — or at least “interesting” — even if BAD OPINIONS are there) like some interesting stuff from the U.S. etc.. press or The Moscow Times, etc..

            Of-course I’m banned from there… For some reason or other… Trolls were screaming and crying the loudest so…. Oddly, they didn’t ban the OBVIOUS TROLLS :) Just me and a guy named “Murf” etc… some good pro-Uke posters were banned from there! — But the Russo-mongoloidol trolls — REMAINED! :)

            Rather amusing I thought! :)

            At any rate, your background, I thought you were a “Uke” would explain why you wouldn’t be familiar with the (essentially) Polish Commonwealth.
            No one really thinks about the moral essence of that or what it meant, in terms of everyday life etc… where one had no real human rights.

            Gryzelda, with whom I have fought with EVERY time she DARES to bring such up or cast a positive slant on, is very pro-Ukie, yet… DESPITE being a Marxist (modified) AND a femninist (??!!!) is STILL attempting to “sell” this most morally abhorent Polish Commonwealth do to some sort of bizarre romantic attachment to that era when Poland was at it’s territorial height. But… no matter how “adroit” and clever she may verbally be manipulative, she must back-down when confronted with such and retreat. Because serfdom, is serfdom, esp. more harsh when imposed upon another people along with cultural repression. But still she comes back with that when she can. So I was suprised when “a Uke” — i.e. “you” I thought at the time, backed her up on such.

            Ok, so you don’t know… Ok… Now you do. I do not look at things from a “Catholic prism” as you gather. A Christian one of course though.

            Btw, I am NOT an “evagelical” nor do I “do” — tv pastors and such …. Hmm… more like.. “Reform” such would be called.
            Alistair Begg would be a good example of the sort of dude I would listen to: http://tinyurl.com/kzv2xw7

            Very “catholic” — in the old meaning of the word — i.e. “universal”.
            Very “orthodox” — meaning in terms of being most conventional and biblical.

            No snake bs (or homosexuality like your priests like to do). :)
            No jumping up and down and swinging from the chandalier stuff. :)
            An scholarly lecture on Romans very much suits me.

            Btw, there was (on you tube) — a Ukie Catholic priest, drunk as a skunk in jail, talking about blow-jobs, sucking cocks, again, drunk out of his mind… You see, on you can’t be a MARRIED Eastern rite Ukie Catholic priest on “Western territory” — i.e. ordained as such… Because THEY (the Roman rite) don’t like it…

            This drunk, Ukie Catholic priest was SINGLE and ORDAINED in the U.S.

            So they were told — Ukie Catholics — by the Roman rite Catholic perverts –a long time ago — “on our territory” (Roman rite territory ??!!) — we don’t have pussy, and YOU SHOULDN’T EITHER! ” :)

            So besides the married priesthood celibacy issue, I have many other issues with BOTH Catholics and Orthodox confessions. REFORM don’t pray to “saints.” :) Or to Mary. :)

            Just most conventional. :)
            No smoke — no altar boys.

          • Trueteller

            I am banned from Kyiv Post too…All those things about confession what you wrote is well known facts to every elementary school boy(except obvious mistakes,of course,we are not worshipper of saints and Mary,every child knows that,there is altars in some protestant churches etc),Orthodox Christians call themself pravoslavni(right-worshipping) and Orthodox is just name for them in the West. There is Ukrainians who belong to Latin rite of Catholicism in Ukraine and around the world,in Croatia too…All nonsenses about homosexuality and pedophilia in Catholic Church is fairy tales from so called protestant Christians who promote homosexuality,gay marriages,masonry,euthanasia and similar “liberties”…I am huge sinner but practising Catholic all my life,just like majority of Croatians and pedophilia scandals are almost unknown to all of us,from own experience and from experience of all peopkle I know and they know…When you consider percentage of those crimes in Catholic Church and compare with minor protestan cults you’ll find out interesting things. Women “priests”,homosexual priests and bishops,theology where “Devil doesn’t exist and it’s just backward Catholic invention and blah-blah-blah”,well every person can very easy see from where multiculturalism,LGBT,religious syncretism,boundles personal rights and else come and which institution is main dam to movement born in 16th century,developed in French revolution and American revolutin and unmasked in Washington,London and Brussels(with some enemies in those cities,but unfortunately weaker and weaker enemies). Look I can read English without any problem,but I am absolutelly limited when I answer to you because I can’t write in English what I want. My words look like retarded 3 year old child is write. There’s no sense to talk about history and religion because we can’t agree about it,you can’t see that I am not promoter of serfdom,it was social system at the time and what you think where people live better at the time,in Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth or in Moscovia Kingdom,or Byzantium? I am not supporter of Commonwealth,I am just realistic observer. I am very happy because USA holds leading place in number of new grown age baptised Catholics in the world and it is reason why we will watch more and more attacks on Church and Pope. Where Devil to attack than on Roman Catholic Church-Body of Jesus Christ? No on MegaMarket Mall Church(es)? Well,this is not important now,the most important is stop real Antichrist,KGB Soviet communist Vladimir Putin and proStalin cult RPC which officially praised Stalin and Soviet Union(RPC speaker Vsevolod Chaplin did it) and KGB associate president of Presidio od RPC Tovarish patriarch Kirill…Sorry for confusing text!

          • Trueteller
          • Trueteller

            BTW no hard feelings!!! We Croatians are very sensitive if somebody touch our nation and Church which always was shelter for our patriotism and best keeper of national idea and morality during hard times of foreign occupation and communist godless evil system. I follow your comments for a while and I really enjoy in your answers to Golden Horde boys. I am going enjoy in my month ago bought 2013 Gibson Les Paul. See you Andrew! Beware of rattle snake!(I will keep my ass from priest)-HAHAHA….

          • Trueteller

            You can stop insult me. I have no capability of English language and positive madness which drives you,and actually I like what you write(except few minor history views,but so what?) so no need to spend your time on me when you have many trolls around who really deserve your unique answers.Best regards from Croatia

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “It was a reply to Andrew Chmilewsky. He tries to persuade me that I am a
            fan of serfdom:) Which is so absurd that I feel humiliated that I have to deny it.”

            You merely attempted to JUSTIFY AND RATIONALIZE it — not “deny” it.

            There is a large difference. I think one is worse than the other. A lie can be “dismissed” — an attempted (most poorly) JUSTIFICATION must be EXPOSED, ridiculed and punished.

            One should CONFESS THAT to a priest — if a Catholic, for being so FOUL … as to try to at all, praise such! Most disgusting such is! Brutal indeed! Savage! Wonder what a Marxist or a feminist would think about such… Besides non-Poles as well. Or normal thinking Poles… There must be some that hold a poor view of imperialism, serfdom, sexual abuse, etc…. most surely! I hope so anyway?

            Ah! The Golden Age of Poland this Commonwealth thing… eh?

            Shall I read a poem or two after a mass murder or rape by the Polish Commonwealth perhaps? A good poem, if in Polish, would most certainly justify everything you know… 😉 For a fool perhaps…

            Rest of your post was pretty good… save for near the end whereupon you wrote:

            “It was also a class conflict. Perhaps it was a class conflict first of all?”

            Nope! It was Polish chauvinist conflict as well my dear … besides Polish greed and sexual depravity. Given the nationalist elements in such, i.e. lingual, religious. Khmelnitsky led a POPULAR UKRAINIAN UPRISING AGAINST POLES… not merely a “class conflict” here.

            You should ask me if you have any such questions… Since you apparently can’t figure out such rather simple things for some reason I can not fathom….

            Possibly this is very related to your rather poor Polish education. I believe you want to school there.

            So that must explain it. Ask me about such things so that you do not embarrass yourself and look like an idiot and totally depraved, perverted and most evil!

            However, I am fairly certain your views would be very popular and most accepted in both a Polish school and/or in a Polish bar.

            Or by Norman Davies, that fat, overfed, VERY POLISH FLATTERING, Welsh sycophant of the masses of ignorant, chauvinistic Polish @sses.

            Who else would be so stupid as to “buy” and parrot his vicious, evil, IGNORANT and most STUPID nonsense?

            He’s apparently (Norman Davies) and VERY TRANSPARENTLY a great fan indeed of serfdom, sexual abuse, mass murder, exploitation, etc….

            Obviously a most UNTHINKING and very perverted, INSENSITIVE, SAVAGE fellow I dare say…. don’t you think so my dear?

            For having such a view on the Polish Commonwealth, any RIGHTEOUS and decent Polish person, would condemn such. From a humanitarian standpoint. For “fairness” — “justice”…. you know… Christian type stuff… but I forget… you’re a Polish Catholic. :)

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Ok, Andrew, that’s enough. I read the first sentence and I am not going to continue this madness. You are fighting with your imaginary enemy, dear Don Qiujote. Focus on the real ones.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            “Which “system which made it possible was deficient” ?”
            What we condemn easily is the social and legal system of the Commonwealth. Our attitude towards II Polish Republic is a bit more complicated. First of all we are reluctant to criticise the state which was annihilated by stalinism and nazism. After the II ww we actually were not allowed to speak about it. History of this period was a taboo in the communist Poland. It is now being studied and discussed and it is still a very emotional and touchy subject.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Posted this for Gryzelda…
            Reposting this for you siania.

            You (Gryzelda) ROTE: “Though those magnates were often Ruthenians and Lithuanians (Kisiel,
            Sapieha, Radziwiłł, Wiśniowiecki) but they were polonized and equipped
            with legal instruments that gave them almost infinite possibilities of
            abusing their subjects.”

            MOST OF THEM WERE POLES.

            Please be more objective.
            Thank you in advance for your future cooperation!

          • siania

            calm down and mind your manners

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Tell your little friend to mind hers!

          • siania

            is it “our” or “your” crazy magnates?
            the article prints “your” while your reply sent to my email prints “our”

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            OURS! It was my text editor not me who wants to avoid responsibility :) Though those magnates were often Ruthenians and Lithuanians (Kisiel, Sapieha, Radziwiłł, Wiśniowiecki) but they were polonized and equipped with legal instruments that gave them almost infinite possibilities of abusing their subjects.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You ROTE: “Though those magnates were often Ruthenians and Lithuanians (Kisiel,
            Sapieha, Radziwiłł, Wiśniowiecki) but they were polonized and equipped
            with legal instruments that gave them almost infinite possibilities of
            abusing their subjects.”

            MOST OF THEM WERE POLES.

            Please be more objective.
            Thank you in advance for your future cooperation!

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Sure.

            “The Sapieha (Belarusian: Сапега; Lithuanian Sapiega) is a Polish princely (magnate) family of Lithuanian andRuthenian origin,[1][2] descending from the medieval boyars of Smolensk.[3] The family acquired great influence and wealth in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 16th century.”

            “The Czartoryski, feminine form: Czartoryska, plural: Czartoryscy (Ukrainian: Чарторийські, Chartoryisky; Чорторийські, Chortoryisky; Lithuanian: Čartoriskiai) is a Polish princely family of Lithuanian[3]-Ruthenian[4] origin also known as the Familia.”

            “Ostrogski (Polish: Ostrogscy, Lithuanian: Ostrogiškiai, Ukrainian: Острозькі-Ostroz’ki, Belarusian: Астрожскія, “Астроскія”, Russian: Острожские -Ostrozhskie) was one of the greatest Polish-Ruthenian families of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which was then part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.[1][2][3] The family spanned from the 14th century Daniil Ostrogski to the 17th century Janusz Ostrogski. All family’s possessions were passed to the Zasławskifamily.”

            “House of Wiśniowiecki (Ukrainian: Вишневе́цькі, Lithuanian: Višnioveckiai) is the name of a Polish princely family of Ruthenian/Lithuanian origin, notable in the history of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. They were powerful magnateswith the estates predominantly in Ruthenian lands of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, who held the Polish coat of arms Korybut. The family traditions would trace their descend to Gediminids, but modern historians believe there is more evidence for them to have descended from the Rurikids.[1]”

            “Zasławski (plural Zasławscy) is a surname of Polish–Ruthenian nobility. The Zasławski family had its power base inVolhynia, Crown of the Kingdom of Poland (today Ukraine), and traced its origins to a branch of the Rurikids that took a name from the Zasław city (now Iziaslav). Due to their relation to the Rurikids, they held title of Knyaz (Prince).”

            “The Radziwiłł family (Polish pronunciation: [radʑiˈviw]; Lithuanian: Radvila; Belarusian: Радзівіл, Radzivił; German:Radziwill; Latin: Radvil) is a Polish noble family originated from Grand Duchy of Lithuania.[1] The descendants ofKristinas Astikas, a Lithuanian and a close associate of the 14th century Lithuanian ruler Vytautas, were highly prominent for centuries, first in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, later in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and theKingdom of Prussia.”

            “Sanguszko (Belarusian: Сангушка, Ukrainian: Сангушко) is a Polish noble and aristocratic family of the Ruthenian stock from the Gediminid dynasty. Like other princely houses of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, its origin are considered murky. Present historical opinion holds in favour of their descent from Algirdas’ grandson Alexander Feodorovich (fl. 1433-1443), lord of Kovel and Liuboml, whose name can be shortened to Sangush.”

            “Czetwertyński or Chetvertynsky (also Sviatopolk-Chetvertynsky) is a Ukrainian[1] (or Polish) princely family originated from Volhynia in the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland.[2] The family takes its name from the village ofChetvertnya, Lutsk county, in modern-day Manevychi Raion, Volyn Oblast. The family traditionally claims to be one of the surviving branches of the Rurik dynasty, although this claim was recently[when?] undermined by DNA tests.[3]”

            Dear, want more? The list is long. As you see ou were generally exploited by you own people. Polish aristocrats were generally not as rich as the eastern “królewięta”. Check it yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princely_Houses_of_Poland

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Went there… checked out the link you provided…. and lo n’ behold, what do you think I saw when the link opened up?

            “Princely Houses of Poland”

            Not the princely houses of Ukeland, Ruthenia, etc.. but of Poland.

            What language did they all speak? What religion did they profess? Were they perverted, disgusting degenerates?

            Did they operate and behave according to Polish Laws, and cultural and moral standards?

            See what I mean? Clearly they were POLES! — The fact, that some may have had, a Ukie ancestor or so, so what? By their language, customs, culture, their disgusting and immoral and savage behavior, they were clearly Poles, Catholics, Polish speaking… Polish thinking… and whatever non-Polish genetic material there once was, — I can’t check out what you CLAIM — I don’t read Polish as you well know– became ruined, degraded, degenerate by breeding with Poles.

            Again please note: THEY ALMOST ALL WERE POLISH CATHOLIC AND POLISH SPEAKING and POLISH IN TERMS OF THEIR MORALS, CULTURE AND ACTING UNDER POLISH “LAW” — What Poles called “justice” and “law” anyway. Right?

            Look, Poland is currently very supportive of Ukraine. Before then, AT ALL TIMES, they were very hostile, vicious, savage. That’s how it was…

            So far, since communism fell, they have been “nice.” :)

            UP TO THEN, they were very, very, “un-nice”. Evidently, while under Russian occupation up to the fall of communism, they were “improved” by the Russians in various ways.

            Culturally it would seem…. for they no longer behave as they used to, towards everyone around them. Which, as you pointed out, ONLY the Hungarians liked them. Everyone else, COULDN’T STAND THEM! :)

            So… shall we say..
            The Russo-mongolians improved the morals and character of the Poles? :)

            To put it delicately my dear? :)

            Taught you some manners perhaps?
            Not to rape, murder, steal, invade, spit on the floor, etc.. ?

            Look…. they have “improved” …. (so far) they learned to think a **LITTLE** ahead of their usual Polish nose… Took them a thousand years…

            To be INDELICATE now, your “Polish Commonwealth” SUCKED!

            And even AFTER WW2, your Polish People’s Republic was hardly an improvement!

            Thank God you got some Western culture that slipped into Poland, American movies, etc… and evidently, the Russians taught you a few things that you didn’t know…. a LOT you didn’t know.. Maybe they’ll teach you some more in time.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            That’s the law under which they acted:
            http://starbel.narod.ru/statut1588.htm

          • puttypants

            Andrew…That is the past. Poland is supporting Ukraine now. Sometimes the past does need to be forgotten or all it does is continue old hatreds. I know that Ukraine has been unfairly treated and unfairly maligned and we need to tell our story for the world to know but we don’t need to do it with such hatred. Bless you. We all must make peace with each other to survive. I live in the USA, have great Polish friends. My parents had lots of Polish friends while here and they lived thru WW1 & 2 and experienced the starvation, oppression and all the brutalization and yet they were all able to forgive and forget and go on with their lives. They realized they had more in common than not.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “Puttypants” I know perfectly well what you are saying. However,
            to be claiming historically, and most boldly, (till extremely recently) that the Polish Commonwealth, was “a good thing” as it were for Ukraine, Belarus, etc… along with effectively excusing Polish sexual depravities, child molestation, slavery, the horrors of Polish culture (which is EXACTLY what it was) etc… indirectly or directly, is not to be excused or gotten away with.

            I do NOT consider the Polish Commonwealth as “part of my legacy” and a positive, as Gryzelda is “selling” (or was attempting to and failing) — as something other than a Polish inflicted nightmare on Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, etc.

            History is what it is. Revising it, esp. this part of history, very falsely, very deliberately, is dishonest.

            It doesn’t matter if the person doing so is relatively uneducated, ignorant and naive. Such should not be allowed to pass and should be rigorously challenged at all times.

            While Poland is currently a strong supporter of Ukraine, and this is of course greatly appreciated, it obviously wasn’t always so.

            “Panschena” as Ukes called Polish inflicted serfdom upon Ukraine, during the time of the Polish Commonwealth, was not a nice thing. And as Gryzelda notes, (very lately) it was worse in Ukraine. I understand, that from a primitive Polish view, the Polish Commonwealth was a glorious thing.

            Their “Polish golden age” as it were. And their inflicting and spreading their Polish culture and their sexual depravities, homosexuality, child molestations, torture, that Polish language of theirs, torture, murders, rapes, banning Ukrainian language use, book and library burnings is Polish glory indeed. The height and pinnacle of Polish culture. From their Polish perspective. But not from the point of view of others, who are not so fortunate as to be Polish perhaps.
            Depends on if you are a thinking person perhaps and not a crazed, raving chauvinist and possibly some sort of sexual deviant or merely totally unconscious in your historical flag waving.

            Gryzelda has argued with me on this topic extensively in the past. She has told me IN EFFECT, that because the Polish Commonwealth produced some Polish poetry and such, (which they talk about a lot and hype up, along with some “great artwork” they claim — a LOT OF POLISH HYPE about such)… and that Poland was at its territorial zenith in terms of grabbed territory from other people, that this was all GREAT AND WONDERFUL! :) And all this was WORTH IT! — So forget about Polish rape and mass murder and Poles spreading homosexuality and torture, and the spreading of illiteracy, ignorance, language bans, and Polish culture and depravity in general. It was WORTH IT! — For you got some Polish poetry out of it! BE STILL MY HEART!!! :) Gladly would I be raped by some Polish homosexual, or my children and wife raped and/or murdered, to but hear, A POLISH POEM!!! :)

            And if you read the Polish descriptions of their “great cultural achievements” during their most wonderful Polish Commonwealth historical period, you don’t read of the HORRORS of Polish Commonwealth rule… but you read a LOT OF *HYPE* about how you had this or that, Polish poet or writer, musciian, etc… etc… that you NEVER EVER heard of, all HYPED UP to make it sound like how could any Ukrainian, Belarussian, Lithuanian, Latvian, etc.. NOT be willing to have some Polish homosexual or child molester rapist around for the sake of hearing some sort of Polish poem?? :)

            THAT’S HOW STUPIDLY THEY JUSTIFY SUCH BS!!!

            And Gryzelda, BELIEVES IT! :)
            She is most impressed by such! The naming of all those “great Polish artists, poets, writers” — which I am most certain of, very few of which she has read or viewed of their works — but it “sounds real good to me!!!” — THE SUCKER!!!

            But, she’s a great Polish patriot ya’ know :) (besides a SUCKER!!!) Governments and their historians work on the ignorant, naive, and unthinking you know…

            But… some people are easily swayed… and don’t think about the human toll…. but are impressed about some LONG LIST OF NAMES ABOUT GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS — which they know little about…. but again,… “that sounds good to me!!!” :) Norman Davies, the specialist on Polish history, uses that technique a lot in “selling” the supposed “GREATNESS OF THE POLISH COMMONWEALTH!!!” — Wonder if he’d like to be raped by a Polish homosexual or have his kids sexually molested by Poles? Or be economically exploited for A GREAT POLISH POEM!!! 😉

            SUCKERS!!! Besides that… some people, are just very, very unfeeling, cruel and savage in their “thinking”… or it’s because they are unthinking.

            In balance to the above:
            Gryzelda is a very strong supporter of Ukeland and has traveled to Ukeland…

            See a review of hers when she was in Lviv:

            Agence France Presse: Lviv cafe glorifies anti-Soviet fighters

            (hopefully this url works — if not, see the one below — using “tinyurl.com” (I recommend using such — this is a test of sorts)

            http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/agence-france-presse-lviv-cafe-glorifies-anti-sovi-38537.html

            Tiny url version of above link in case of posting distortion:
            http://tinyurl.com/lnl69hd

            History, should not be romanticized, nor distorted. The gullible, the ignorant, the cruel, and savage inclined and weak minded, easily fall prey to such. Look at the Russo-mongolians and propaganda they fall for. So can the weak minded in other savage sort of countries, heavily propagandized and indoctrinated since the earliest grades in school be any different then the Ruskie savages?

            I think not. Not their fault if they were “educated” in Poland into this sort of savagery and cruelty about that horrible Polish Commonwealth and it’s disgusting horrors, deviancy, perversions and “culture.”

            Poles should think from a human point of view and a less chauvinistic one. Unfortunately, that’s part of their cultural indoctrination. “Sheeple people” in many ways you know. Always have been. Like Russkie that way.

            Not meant as an insult here, but this is what I have read and observed about them. It didn’t help when the Judeo-Bolsheviks killed the best mind of Poland in the Katyn Forrest you know. So this is what you have left now.

            And Gryzelda is one of the brighter ones.

          • Melp

            Since my grandfather worked as a teacher for the german administration, he had to prove that his blood over 4 generations was clean (which was the basis for his later Hobby Genealogy^^). So he found out that possibly even a drop Huguenot was inside.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            You sound as if there were many drops of Huguenot blood in your veins. And yes, it is a compliment:)

          • Melp

            we had also a parade this weekend for harbour birthday and party^^.
            leading ship was the Dar Mlodziezy.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            I didn’t know it is still used. It’s almost as old as me :)
            Happy birthday:)

          • On the Balcony

            Name calling simply reveals your immaturity, irrationality and ignorance.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            On the Balcony ROTE:

            “Name calling simply reveals your immaturity, irrationality and ignorance.”

            Why you DUMB, STUPID, TRULY **IGNORANT** B*TCH WITH A BIG COWARDLY MOUTH!

            While you do not like my “name calling” — as per *YOU* — the VICOUSLY ENSLAVING,

            SEXUALLY ABUSIVE OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN — EXPLOITIVE OF THE LABOR OF MEN,

            TORTURING OF ALL — destructive of human freedom, imprealistic, and making SLAVES of white,

            Chrisitan, European Ukrainians, the wonderful for such — as per you — “Polish Commonwealth” —

            “names” — you are MOST FCKED-UP! TO DEFEND SUCH OR SIMPLY,
            IMMATURE, IRRATONAL, PIG-SHIT-IGNORANT or sexually DEPRAVED and A CHILD

            MOLESTER… as well, for approving of all that EVIL!

            And after penning the BS you did…. you did so under the name of “On the Balcony”
            WTF is THAT?

            So besides being fond of CHILD MOLESTATION, MASS RAPE, MASS MURDER AND TORTURE
            by the wonderful as per you, “Polish Commonwealth” — you are ALSO A LOUD MOUTH **COWARD**… You are most FCKED-UP!!! — Are you an alcoholic? Mental case? Current or former addict? Sexual deviant? WTF do you PRETEND to not have understood as to what I wrote
            before, you nasty old TWAT?

            Go get layed, put down your bottle of pills, or bottle… Go hide some more….frigid, sexually deviant b*tch!

            Here’s your COWARDLY profile url:
            https://disqus.com/by/postsonly/

            Didn’t you learn anything last time you loudmouth scumbag?

            Go hide some more! Find some more perverted things to defend you nasty @sshole!
            COWARD!

          • On the Balcony

            Tsk tsk little one! Does your mommy know that you are using her computer? (I assume of course that you have a mommy who was once pregnant with you and not merely constipated.)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            GO SUCK MORE ALCOHOL! — You drunk again you mental case?

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            No it isn’t. Historically, you are simply more simple than that. :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            You dodged the points, EVERY POINT, in a cowardly manner, so as to evade answering ANY of them.

            “Oh, God, are you saying that people who signed the Union in Krewa on behalf of Grand Duchy of Lithuania were ídíots?”

            Ipso facto non dubio.

          • Jens A

            My answer to Andrew may interest you :-)

        • Andrew Chmilewsky

          In “the best of all possible worlds” — which never happens…. Ukrainians should NEVER have fought either for the Poles or the Russians.

          As per Alexander Solzhenitsyn, in his _Gulag Archipelago_ it would have been far better if the Soviet Union had lost the war against the Germans.

          Patrick Buchanan and other historians have also voiced this thesis.

          Ever wonder why you NEVER see Hollywood movies about communist atrocities or savagery? Only about “nazis! nazis! nazis!

          Solzhenitsyn estimates that over 60 million died from communism. No, that does NOT include WW2 losses.

          Nazis were angels compared to the communists. But they evidently didn’t have as good a press as the Russians did.

          • Jens A

            Numbers are not really known, but the little I have seen from archives indicates that numbers can be calculated, once archives in Russia are opened. It does seem though, that earlier estimates on the number of victims from the time of the USSR are highly overestimated, at least when it comes to the GULAG. For example it was believed that about 3 mill. people were killed in only Kolyma, but now it seems that the correct number is about 250,000 people. Does that make Communism “good”? No, absolutely not, but it makes numbers more accurate if that really is the truth which I think it is regarding Kolyma. As for Solzhenitsyn, he became much liked by Putin and what many failed to see, me inclusive, was that he very much was a Russian chauvinist and I think he would have been very happy about the present situation of Russia invading Ukraine and fighting for Orthodox faith (Russian style).

            As for “better” if the Germans won. Well, during World War I, I would argue to say yes, but not wholeheartedly. Especially Gryzelda Wrr would probably not at all like that idea. As for World War II, Stalin and Mao would have been boy-scouts compared to Hitler if he had won. Hitler’s and Himmler’s plans were killing about one third of all people in the USSR, using one third as slaves and the last third should be “Germanized”, so as for WWII there is no doubt. For all countries outside the Axis it was the least bad one who won, but neither of the options were “good”.

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            We lived under German rule for almost 5 years. The whole country was one big lager. Death, tortures, humiliation, fear, penury, diseases, hunger. No, I don’t like the idea of Hitler as a victor. It’s only my impression and very subjective, but I think that Stalinism was about breaking people’s will while Nazism was about physical extermination.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda Wrr! You IGNORANTLY ROTE in comparing Nazi BS theories, and JUDEO-BOLSHEVIK *MARXIST* -ACTIONS- the following idiotic, prevaricating drivel:

            “No, I don’t like the idea of Hitler as a victor. It’s only my
            impression and very subjective, but I think that Stalinism was about
            breaking people’s will while Nazism was about physical extermination.”

            You are product of the Polish People’s Republic LYING communist BS propaganda and it’s so-called “POLISH EDUCATION SYSTEM”. Which is IGNORANT, MOST STUPID besides OBVIOUSLY INFERIOR and you are UNEDUCATED and at no small risk of redundancy — as before — a product of that IGNORANT MOST STUPID BS! (“P’tfu!”)

            At least, you had a modicum (very small though it may be) to preface your LYING, BLATANT *IGNORANCE* and BRAINWASHING (it works very well on some I see) by ATTEMPTING, most WEAKLY, by your preface of: “… It’s only my
            impression and very subjective….”

            Might I suggest darling, that you read, as I have, A FEW TIMES (yes — a FEW times) a book called:

            _The Gulag Archipelago_ by the chauvinistic, unfortunately RUSSIFIIED Ukrainian, and somewhat hostile towards Ukrainian independence, author and historian, guy called Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

            If you had, and IF you KNEW MORE, which you PRETEND HERE YOU DO NOT, (though you do know more) and IF you were more HONEST, you would NEVER have written, the BS you dared pen here.

            In terms of what was done, by the
            =Judeo-Bolshevik=
            *MARXISTS*

            Estimates vary. Solzhenitsyn claims 66 million, NON-WAR RELATED “PEACE TIME DEATHS”. Do a goggle search. (NO WIKI!!!)

            There were a number of genocide target groups. Not in BS “theory” — or theoretical BS talk or discussions or “papers” — but CARRIED OUT, SERIOUS ATTEMPTS FROM THE BEGINNING OF A PLAN FOR SUCH.

            (Also refer to the book, _Khrushchev Remembers_ who btw, was NOT Ukrainian, but a Russian Jew, called by some, “the butcher of Ukraine)

            (Won’t even mention the Ukrainian Famine of 1921, which occurred AFTER THE POLISH ATTACK ON UKRAINE while Ukraine was fighting the Judeo-Bolshevik Russians and AFTER POLAND HAD ALREADY ATTACKED THE CZECHOSLOVAKIANS and just about everyone else around them like the insane, rabid STUPID dogs they were.)

            Brief:

            More on that youtube page should you wish video wise.

            Have a nice day my dear, I’ll respond to Melp and Jens FULLY — later – as I was planning to. But THIS DELIBERATELY LYING **HAMSTVO** by you, had to be immediately replied to. I let ’em BOTH know to check out any reply you make… IF you do.. But I think you should STFU with that DUPLICITOUS LYING MOUTH of yours… But do as you so wish. but I advise you to, as is said, “keep to your level” my dear.

            SHAME!!!
            {“P’tfu!” – PLUYOU! — Te HAMKA!}

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Aha. Now it’s all clear to me :) Thank you :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            quod scripsi, scripsi

          • Jens A

            Calm down Andrew. We are on Ukraine’s side. Looking at your reply, it appears that we are the worst of the worst of your enemies.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I don’t know who “we” are Jens. Are you a Pole?

            Had you read “Gryzelda Wrr’s” reply, more carefully, and had a rough idea as to history, commie/Marxist propaganda, her “honesty” in posting, the subtle (NOT!) manipulative lying, the *NUMBERS *of people killed in PEACETIME — i.e. a COMPARISON of Nazi murders versus RUSSIAN *MASSIVE* MURDERS, ACTUAL and very serous GENOCIDE ATTEMPTS, along with CULTURAL GENOCIDE, MASS TORTURES, MASS DEPORTATIONS, you would EASILY say, nazis were angels compared to the Russians.

            And many nationalities would in the former Judeo-Bolshevik Union would have agreed.

            From the point of view of Ukes (Ukrainians) the Belarussians and the Baltic Nations, the close second to the bestial SAVAGERY, etc.. of the Russo-mongolians, would of course and most obviously be the Poles.

            And “Gryzelda Wrr” KNOWS this… re-read her post and study it. Her weasel-worded phrasing.

            She is poorly educated, and worse, POLISH EDUCATED (which is obviously SH*T in terms of logic and ability to reason — at least in her case one is forced to conclude — some other Poles are *DYNAMITE* POSTERS! — just not THAT creature) and she has a POLISH MORALITY and “CHARACTER” and is clearly fairly CHAUVINISTIC in her distortions and OUTRIGHTLY *LYING*.

            You can do a very cursory viewing of:
            The Museum of Communism
            (yes, Jens, I know you know about such!)
            http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/musframe.htm

            Or in a REVIEW of:
            _The Book Book of Communism_

            in the section:

            Comparison of Communism and Nazism

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism#Comparison_of_Communism_and_Nazism

            Tiny url for the above:
            http://tinyurl.com/ma4yb2s

            See the section: “Comparison of Communism and Nazism”

            (read from the “Comparison…..” to article end, for the “politically correct” usually very Judeo-Politicall Correct – BS Wiki slant and take on such. I don’t mind bending over backward here in this case)

            Again — this is:
            — by the VERY biased and most shitty Wiki, where most of the Jews and/or Marxists, or French, or NOT VERY HONEST AND POORLY EDUCATED AND IGNORANT POLES LIKE “Wrr” were attacking the above book and **CONCEPT** BECAUSE THEY DON’T LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE JUDEO-BOLSHEVIKS make the Nazis look like ANGELS. And “Gryzelda” @SSHOLE does know that! She’s a lying sack af sh*t!

            (The above book was attacked save for the most splendid Jewess “freak” — Anne Applebaum — A NOBLE JEWESS! — married to another most splendid (except for his mouth in Kyiv to the Maidan protestors telling them to in effect surrender) “freak” the Pole, Radoslaw Sikorksi.)

            I’ve opened up my Disqus profile to the public. So that anyone may review the very recent exchanges between myself, and that PREVARICATING, SNEAKING, LYING CREATURE DEFAMING,,

            of all people!!! THE HEROIC MOST NOBLE COMMIE, MARXIST KILLING FREEDOM FIGHTERS -by comparison – NAZIS! — See how she dealt with my various latest posts…. in her EVIL, DECEITFUL, *WEAK* manner…. that FOUL Polish MARXIST, EVIL, SNEAKING, LYING CREATURE! — Most disgusting! — P’tfu!!! — I spit in her lying Polish MARXIST LYING face!

            Probably she’d have her mouth open prepared to LIE again, so the spittle from my SPITTING IN HER FACE, would strike her in the back of her LYING throat.

            Then she should be thrown to her spiritually and morally equal and at times, JUST AS HONEST, Ruski.

            Whereupon they could beat and gang rape her in their traditional Russo-mongolian manner. And she would STILL hate the Germans more, most likely.

            Probably for being too CIVILIZED with her. Ruskie seem to understand Poles (like her) and what they need and how to deal with Poles like her, very, very well, judging by the exchanges I’ve read.

            She’s very similar to them. Were I her, I’d NOT say I was Polish… She’s too disgusting!

            Hmm…. after the traditional Russki gang rape, which evidently as a Pole, she’s must be most fond of and used to, judging by the extensive history of such in Poland, esp. by Russo-mongolian troops…

            I’ll come to watch later, after a few days when the regiment is done taking their repeated turns on her, Russkie “officers and gentlemen” go first of course! — when they put a bullet to the back of her head and bury her in a mass pit.

            After they’ve tortured her a bit and, as is at times, Ruskie practice I’ve read, they cut off her breasts first, then continue the torture

            — That was the FIRST ATROCITY OF THE WAR BETWEEN COMBATANTS ON THE EASTERN FRONT. The Russo-mongolians captured a group of female German nurses. Maybe she’d like that, judging by her “LOGIC” and “HONESTY”.

            To compare the HEROIC commie killing Nazis, to her OWN Judeo-Bolshevik MARXIST SCUM KIND… is rather low I think….

            I really do not approve of genocide and lying about such AT ALL, in ANY MANNER. She’s disgusting! A true LYING PIG. Nor should it be a question, of anything else IN THAT AREA of human activity.

            Very good for the Germans for smuggling some photos out of Soviet Ukraine…. THEY KNEW ABOUT IT…. SCUM WILL IGNORE SUCH IN THEIR RABID, **IGNORANT** BRAINWASHED HATRED FOR THE GERMANS OF THAT TIME PERIOD… **STUPID** TYPES…. BRAIN WASHED TYPES…. Dumb and stubborn as SH*T!

            http://tinyurl.com/o7s4puo

            And:
            http://tinyurl.com/n4d9kbu

            Poles did VERY SIMILAR THINGS IN UKRAINE btw…. EXACTLY like the Russo-mongols, except in SCALE.

            Did such as well, AFTER WW2 as well.

            Dishonest and/or IGNORANT ones like “Gryzelda” just LOVE TO PLAY THE INNOCENT VIRGIN ACT. Very much like the Judeo-Bolsheviks btw. They’ve made TOURIST CENTERS out of the so-called “DEATH AND GAS CHAMBER CAMPS OF POLANDS!!! COME BOOK A TOUR WITH US!!!” — that they like to “sell.” — But of course, no one cares about them, any more than anyone cares about the Truth it seems. “Gryzelda” does not. AND SHE DOES KNOW ENOUGH! — If ONLY because *I* TOLD HER! Stupid cow!

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “Calm down Andrew. We are on Ukraine’s side. Looking at your reply, it
            appears that we are the worst of the worst of your enemies.”

            What was it, that you did not understand about it pray tell? It was regarding genocide, and someone LYING about such, RIGHT?

            Or should I have used more pictures to conceivably help you understand better do you think?

          • Jens A

            By the way, one of the old prisoners I interviewed in Kolyma was an old Ukrainian. He was sent to Kolyma for having old Ukrainian and Carpathian literature. I think he was the last survivor from the Butugychag Uranium camp. I don’t think he is alive today.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda Wrr ROTE:”We lived under German rule for almost 5 years. The whole country was one
            big lager. Death, tortures, humiliation, fear, penury, diseases,
            hunger. No, I don’t like the idea of Hitler as a victor. It’s only my
            impression and very subjective,”

            Now genius, COMBINE the DEATHS of FIGHTING the GERMANS — **FOR** the Russo-mongolians, and ADD **TO** — **THAT** — ALL THE “death, tortures, humiliation, fear, penury, diseases, hunger FROM THE RUSSO-MONGOLOIDOLS —- during the war, losing your nasty “2nd Republic /Commonwealth slave empire territory” PLUS ALL THE OTHER “”death, tortures, humiliation, fear, penury, diseases, hunger FROM THE RUSSO-MONGOLOIDOLS” — until 1990 was it??? :)

            AND NO BRAINWASHING NECESSARY ANYMORE AT THAT POINT! YOU LOVED the RUSKIE at that point! — And for a long time after that! :) AND your own people were killing and ABUSING you FOR THEM! :)

            The GERMANS didn’t want, need or care about all that from you! :)

            Would’ve been SMARTER and BETTER for EVERYONE, if you went with the GERMANS…. :)

            And do NOT even ATTEMPT to claim some sort of MORALS — or NOBILITY in terms of Polish history my dear ….. not HARDLY! 😉

            Here is a VERY SMALL “clue” my dear!

            Now, IF instead of FIGHTING *FOR* the Russo-mongolians, who were scrtaching their nuts and massaging thier chui while you DUM FCKS were UPRISING IN WARSAW FOR THEM :) like the **STUPIT** FCKS YOU ALWAYS WERE…. had you GREEDY CRETINS had GIVEN THE GERMAN CITY AND IT’S CORRIDOR **BACK** TO THE GERMANS…. went WITH REAL PEOPLE…. instead of PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST AS EVIL, DISHONEST AND AS **STUPIT** AS YOU ARE ….
            and just BEGIN to add a few numbers… here from the VERY BEGNINING….

            Soviet annexation of Eastern Galicia, Volhynia and Northern Bukovina – Wiki

            http://tinyurl.com/lukbwq2

            Did you POLES “thnik” you could get more “culture” — science and technology, civilization and ADVANCE with the Russo-mongolians more than from the Germans you IDIOTS? 😉

            You would have KEPT ALL YOUR SH*T — and got MORE!!! Not to mention Lviv, Minsk… etc… etc… Better beer as well…

            STUPID YOU ARE !!!
            AND YOU *STILL* HAVEN’T FIGURED IT OUT YOU KRETINKA!!! — MORON!

            You’re a real “p-word brain” … I truly see that! I usually teach them the term. WHAT A MORON! :)
            Go pretend to be moral and noble some more… 😉

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            Andrew Chmilewsky, a very intelligent person, unlike you, would know when it’s time to shut up. I really am fed up with the racist idiocy of your posts. First of all, they lack almost any substance, second, you are using words that are considered insults among civilised people and third you are justifying mass murders. This is neither smart nor funny. My patience is over.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Gryzelda ROTE:
            “Andrew Chmilewsky, a very intelligent person, unlike you, would know
            when it’s time to shut up. I really am fed up with the racist idiocy of
            your posts.”

            What racism darling? I was not CHAMPIONING POLISH SERFDOM AND SEXUAL ABUSE AND MURDER AND RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE TOWARDS UKES, BELARUS, LITHUANIANS (hm… at least the Lithuanians are mostly Catholic — so not that there with them… but they sill hate you) Latvians, Estonians, and anyone traveling by or near enough to smell you. What racism darling? I’m not Polish. I wouldn’t MASS ABUSE, SEXUALLY, MASS MURDER, BEAT TORTURE ANYONE NOT EVEN THE ABOVE MENTIONED (inferior?) PEOPLES AND TALK ABOUT “the great achievements of the Polish Commonwealth” LIKE YOU! — RIGHT?

            “First of all, they lack almost any substance, second, you
            are using words that are considered insults among civilized people and
            third you are justifying mass murders.”

            Err… “Justifying mass murders” — For some very strange reason, I thought it was you doing that!! — Along with the MASS sexual abuse and torture etc.. inherent in the GLORIOUS SPREAD OF THE POLISH COMMONWEALTH AND CULTURE, AND ALL THE POLISH POETRY YOU CAN EAT!!! — Along with the BANNING of Ukie language, etc… etc.. not to mention pushing your most marvelous CATHOLIC homosexuality BS religion on decent, innocent Ukrainian and Belorussian people (with your nasty “psseh-psseh” SNAKE HISS LANGUAGE also) to “save our souls” while you go whoring around with the Jews..
            Why didn’t you bother them, and give them your nasty poetry and not try to save their souls? — Why were we so “honored” and tortured, beaten, sexually abused, murdered and PUT INTO SERFDOM AND TREATED LIKE SH*T?

            “This is neither smart nor funny.
            My patience is over.”

            You’re giving up being Polish?

            I find it VERY AMUSING, when **YOU** accuse **ME** of being RACIST?? !!!

            WHO was ARGUING FOR DOWNPLAYING, MINIMIZING, JUSTIFYING, ALL OF THE ABOVE NASTY STUFF MENTIONED FOR SOME ???? “GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS”??? — SERFDOM FOR THE GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE POLISH COMMONWEALTH?

            Tell that to those Ukie ladies like puttypants, sianna whatever and the other Ukes like Brent etc.. that like you… you have a MOST ODD way of thinking my dear… and the AMAZING thing about it is, you had and gave ABSOLUTELY NO THOUGHT AT ALL TO THOSE ENSLAVED BY THE POLES! — Go read those victims some Polish poems! Tell them how great they are… etc…. impress them! And then you wonder why desperate people wanted to get the hell away from the Poles? And you wonder about that?

            And are so pleased that, “at least we Poles are not the swine the Russo-mongolians are!” — So THIS is your “claim to fame” and “justification” MENTIONED INDIRECTLY AND CONSTANTLY AND TRIUMPHANTLY I do notice.

            Most impressive! “We aren’t as shitty as the Russians!” — At THAT TIME, you were EVEN WORSE!

            Amazing how Norman Davies, the WELSH guy, who CONSTANTLY FLATTERS YOU Poles about “THE GREAT CULTURAL ACHIEVEMENTS” of the Polish Commonwealth, read as much of that literature and poetry of that era as you did! :)

            You said almost the same exact stuff as he did at times! :)

            He made his “book market” with you Poles! :) And you believed him! A WESTERN MAN THINKS WE’RE COOL! — You INSECURE EAST EUROPEAN PRIMITIVE! How insecure you are! How CRUEL and sadistically indifferent to the SAVAGERY of the Polish Commonwealth — with the justification being a few people EXPLOITED A LOT OF PEOPLE, were muderous, sexually abusive, etc… and you SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH SUCH, because your most shitty CHAUVINISTIC EGO was “satiated” in some very perverted fashion! Is that what you Polish CATHOLICS usually think?

          • Gryzelda Wrr

            I don’t know why I feel a great temptation to lash you as in good old times of the Commonwealth:) Just in case, stay away from me. My abusive colonial genes might wake up if I saw you around.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “I don’t know why I feel a great temptation to lash you as in good old
            times of the Commonwealth:) Just in case, stay away from me. My abusive
            colonial genes might wake up if I saw you around.”

            And at long last, judging by your above… I “think” (maybe??) you GOT the point of this serfdom spreading stuff! When I went to Ukie grade school… it was mentioned, be assured.

            It was ALL NASTY! — As per you, worse for the non-Pole population. (Or so you say or think anyway??) And barring your “magic region of Poland” — it was ALL NASTY…. you gave me a list of who, what, when ended serfdom awhile back…

            it was again, an economic-greed-class aspect to such, yet also a religious aspect, lingual/national to an extent also “somewhere” in that mix.

            I was “forced” to give you a “like” in one of your replies to “Igor,” — and an “on” — then “off” — ?? Then “no upvote” on another … A “legality” — yeah, Poles “owned” Ukeland, etc. BEFORE Moskva… . at one time, so I “could” see the “legal logic” of a Polish claim to such… and then
            “Igor” talked about how the most kindly U.S.S. R. “restored” Belarus, Ukeland.. Get rather complicated.

            So at the end, — couldn’t decide. :)
            No I’m dealing with “Jens A” who gallantly went to your defense — on the “whose worse? — Hitler or Stalin?” question.

            Numbers alone decide such along with times…

            So AFTER THE severe annoyance at you, I wasn’t as kind to Jens A nor as patient as I should have been. He was talking like you. :)

            He was “dancing around”… “the numbers”.

            I DO think, the point of Poland should have joined the Germans against the U.S.S.R. (Russia really) was valid. Then again one can go back to 1919-20 Uke/Polish/Bolshevik stuff.

            Greed sucks! — It was indeed though, “quite the fashion” to be a colonial power though. And THAT is why — the COASTAL European nations had big colonies and a bigger rule in history and “importance” when you think about it.
            Even the Netherlands and Indonesia etc… Russia had the vastness of Siberia. Plus, they were pigs…. Poland? — Who were they going to bother if not those around them?

            Ukes? Belarus? (pretty much related at the 85% lingual lexicon — but Ah!!! Pretty much they just minded their own business.

            As for Putin? Look how he managed to still the savages up? His miscalculation was in thinking that the lingual aspect alone would determine “loyalty”. Not quite! Plus he was able to “afford it”. But it got more expensive… and wasn’t “a Crimiea”. So, “volunteers” etc… and he’s able to still keep those savages hyped up and focused on such.

            Pretty much very strong national identities in Poland and Russia. The entire concept of Russia was to always “absorb” Ukeland, Belarus..

            Just about wiped out the Baltic Nations as they did Ukeland culturally, Inflicting them all with their population and massive deportations. The greatest “threat” for Russia was always Ukraine of course. Re-establishing the language is KEY there and that’s why the Ruskie have ALWAYS focused on such. Ruskie trolls CONTINUALLY DO THAT… claiming “fairness” etc… and pretending it’s no big deal… Yet, UNTIL Yanukowych, it was “officially” the “sole language” — with Yanukowych, the SELL OUT OF UKRAINE with him began when his “reform law” — (this is for anyone reading this) made this law so that any area with even a SMALL 10% or anything, it would MANDATE that other language, to be used an that area, “officially, regionally, for government, courts, schools.” — ALWAYS THE AIM TO DESTROY THE NATIONAL IDENTITY… for “fairness” — Poland doesn’t do that. Nor do the Baltics. Russia just passed a law couple months back MANDATING ONLY RUSSIAN USAGE… Yet the Ruskie trolls have no problem BRAZENLY pushing their nasty language into Ukraine. The old law was there for 20 years… it can go back…. they’ll always SCREAM about “GENOCIDE OF RUSSIAN SPEAKERS!!!” — They’re in no position to “talk” given this.

            Poles as well “in their day” pushed Polish and the elimination of Ukie language. It always works the same.

            All of it is unnecessary really. Such BS!

            Ukes will be flooding into Poland and you KNOW they won’t be pushing for to make Ukie an “official or regional language” in Poland. You KNOW that. They’ll figure, in Poland you speak Polish in “official circumstances.” See what I mean?

            Not a saintly people, not like Poles or Ruskie about things. It would be good, in terms of NATIONAL INTERESTS to support Ukie language in Ukeland, as a lingual counter to Russification. Russians understand that intuitively and will just be total assholes about such wherever they can.

            Truly Ruskie, are in general rather obnoxious, stupid and illogically stubborn and most unreasonable, rather like very unpleasant children.

            Some others, don’t do so badly at that either! :)

            Yep… after you, I did jump on Jens. You are far, far, far too intense my dear. :) Are you ALWAYS like this? :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Jens, I was planing to reply to you and Melp later… — had to reply to **BENEATH** me Gryzelda. — Later!

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            “Numbers are not really known,”

            That’s a BS comment!!!

            ENOUGH *IS* KNOWN!!

            Like I said, Nazis were angels, compared to the Judeo-Bolsheviks, BY ANY COUNT!

            “but the little I have seen from
            archives indicates that numbers can be calculated, once archives in
            Russia are opened. It does seem though, that earlier estimates on the
            number of victims from the time of the USSR are highly overestimated, at least when it comes to the GULAG. For example it was believed that about 3 mill. people were killed in only Kolyma, but now it seems that
            the correct number is about 250,000 people. Does that make Communism
            “good”? No, absolutely not, but it makes numbers more accurate if that
            really is the truth which I think it is regarding Kolyma.”

            I CONSIDER **ALL** NUMBERS!!!

            *ALL* VICTIMS!!!

            See my links to _The Black Book of Communism_.

            I was ANTICIPATING THAT SORT OF SH*T SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE…. Even Gryzelda wasn’t that LOW!

            You’re talking too fckin’ much here Jens. Stop that BS please! You sound like Gryzelda. Don’t be like a little bitch please! And like I said… SHE WON’T GO THERE!

            “As for
            Solzhenitsyn, he became much liked by Putin”

            FOR AWHILE…. Putin is REHABILITATING STALIN… Solzhenitsyn would NEVER HAVE DONE SUCH!!! — EVER!

            “and what many failed to see, me inclusive, was that he very much was a Russian chauvinist”

            Yep! I always knew that. What’s that got to do with THE NUMBERS??? Agmentum ad hominem BS is INVALID… THE NUMBERS!!!!

            “and I
            think he would have been very happy about the present situation of
            Russia invading Ukraine and fighting for Orthodox faith (Russian style).”

            MAYBE…. He DID LIKE UPA and made some kindly, admiring remarks about them, but he did believe in the BS of Ukes and Russo-mongolians being genetically the same… Biology was not his forte.More like math in his school years … as you know..

            Yes, I read ALL his books,

            (((SAVE FOR THE “TWO HUNDRED YEARS TOGETHER” — AS SOME PEOPLE CONSIDER IT ANTI-JEW for discussing the history of Jews in the Russian Empire/Soviet Union))

            some, like his _Gulag Archipelago_ A FEW TIMES, very seriously. Like I told “Gryzelda” — he’s a Russified Uke and an authoritarian chauvinist type.

            I agree, along with some prominent historians, like Patrick Buchanan, etc.. that he, Solzhenitsyn, was most correct about the Germans should have won in WW2. Check out his remarks about that in context in the book why…. a review of the history, TILL TODAY would give you the answer.

            “As
            for “better” if the Germans won. Well, during World War I, I would
            argue to say yes, but not wholeheartedly. ”

            Ah! WW1 — indeed!

            It would have busted up the Russian Empire… etc… I was at one point well versed on WW1. Every time, the U.S. stuck it’s STUPID NOSE IN, (thank you European central banks and the U.S. Federal Reserve Act of 1913, etc..) things became FAR, FAR WORSE AND BLOODIER…

            “Especially Gryzelda Wrr would
            probably not at all like that idea”

            Fck her!
            Millions of lives are a bit more important in my opinion, as opposed to her “feelings” ….

            One can easily see her prevarications and BS etc.. in the exchanges we’ve recently had and how she replied. I’ve opened up my profile to the public for awhile.. I wasn’t being weaselly and sneaking about in an evasive manner like a little b*tch.

            “As for World War II, Stalin and Mao
            would have been boy-scouts compared to Hitler if he had won..”

            DEADLY WRONG!
            STALIN KILLED MILLIONS (LENIN DIDN’T DO SO BAD EITHER…) IN TERMS OF CONQUESTS AND AGAIN… **MILLIONS** of lives, men, women, children, BABIES… IN PEACETIME! — How many millions does it take, to PLEASE YOU?

            “Hitler’s and Himmler’s plans were killing about one third of all people in the USSR, using one third as slaves and the last third should be
            “Germanized”, so as for WWII there is no doubt.”

            I haven’t seen Hitler’s signature on such, but I have heard A LOT, A LOT OF TALKING ABOUT SUCH BS…. YOU TOO FOR THAT MATTER…..
            So what? And YES — ** I ** have doubts!!! You do NOT! But MILLIONS WERE DEAD LONG BEFORE — IN ACTUALITY!!
            WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM??

            WTF is WRONG with you? Are you a communist? An atheist? What?

            What don’t you fuckin’ GET Jens?

            So WRONG! Lenin’s, Stalin’s actions… all through out — but in terms of NOT BS TALK… not some @sshole submitting some BS paper… etc… TALKING… but MILLIONS WERE KILLED *BEFORE* IN PEACE TIME… See _Khrushchev Remembers_ for more on that, etc.. plus the links to Melp, Gryzelda… Enough there…

            “For all countries
            outside the Axis it was the least bad one who won, but neither of the
            options were “good”. —- ”

            Wrong! He created a Ukrainian SS, etc… etc… The SS btw… was the FIRST REAL TRANS- EUROPEAN ARMY! FROM ALL OVER… MANY NATIONALITIES WERE IN THE Wehrmacht. People change. Things change… Look how all politicians talk a lot. And Obama scumbag was going to pull the U.S. out of Afghanistan and Iraq in the first few months after his first election. Sure, sure…

            You’re giving me the “GENERAL POLITICALLY CORRECT BS LINE” and a LOT OF THE USUAL EVASIVE TALK about it.. — see the links already given you as well as MELP and GRYZELDA.

            The SS…

            A most noble force! Designed to kill and stop the **PROVEN** murderous, **GENOCIDAL** (Ukes, Tatars, Chechens, various others to be WIPED OUT…. by the JUDEO-BOLSHEVIKS…. I have no difficulty in speaking the truth. I don’t have WEASEL AND SPOUT BS AND ATTEMPT TO (rather DESPICABLY and DISHONORABLY) set up some sort of BS “narative” and “framework” and attempt NARROW THE NUMBERS to MINIMIZE HOW MANY **MILLIONS** WERE KILLED
            to “make Stalin look better and to make Hitler look worse.” — THAT’S HORSESHIT!!! HOW WEAK! It’s DISGUSTING AND UNTRUTHFUL, is it not Jens?

            You can even FEEL how you “sound”… and you know it!

            Luck!

          • Jens A

            As for The black book of Communism it was ground breaking regarding understanding what Communism was, but especially on numbers it exatuated wildly and is no longer regarded as a serious source. Read Applebaum.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Jens A ROTE: “As for The black book of Communism it was ground breaking regarding understanding what Communism was, but especially on numbers it exatuated wildly and is no longer regarded as a serious source. Read Applebaum”

            Annie Applebaum PRAISED IT!

            I gave a LINK ON EXACTLY THAT TO YOU… remember?

          • Jens A

            She did, but not regarding numbers.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Jens rote: “so as for WWII there is no doubt. For all countries outside the Axis it
            was the least bad one who won, but neither of the options were “good”. ”

            Damn! Sorry Jens! — I was wondering who could be so ignorant as to upvote your above…. and lo and behold — I INADVERTENTLY UPVOTED YOU!!!

            No, no, no… !!! Only the German renegade Melp and the Polish freak Gryzelda up-voted you really!

            Which, from a humanitarian and LOGICAL VIEWPOINT…. NAH’ NO WAY — VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT! But most piss-poor “thinking.”

            Ideal is the Germans would have won the war, knocked out the Soviet Union (i.e. Russia) -… but they could NEVER have held all that territory! — in post war conditions ESP?? — IMPOSSIBLE!

            And the Germans COULD have done it IF the U.S. didn’t get involved, supplied the Russians or the British… LOTS of people were against the Judeo-Bolsheviks… Ruskiie too! :)

          • Melp

            but the germans were not a simple vacuum cleaner to remove bolsheviks.^^

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Melp ROTE:

            “but the germans were not a simple vacuum cleaner to remove bolsheviks.^^ ”

            SOMEONE has to take out the garbage, right?

            Make the Germans do it!

            Besides, when you consider how the Germans were treated during and after WW1, and WHO — DID –WHAT — TO THEM, plus took Danzig from them, and EVEN TO NOT HAVE A CORRIDOR TO THEIR OWN CITY — I mean it was DANZIG! ….. a German city…. (a big discussion about that with that LYING, German hating, Polish racist,”Gryzelda Wrr” woman…) and all the trouble the Germans had with the Judeo-Bolsheviks, after WW1….

            They even, despite all the POLISH BRUTALITY towards Germans in Danzig, and that POLISH BEHAVIOR that they have…. and that **ATTITUDE** they have… (you should know what I mean — if not… take a few guesses) the Germans STILL wanted to work with those Polish @ssholes and their CONSTANT ABUSE and attacks on Germans. Like I said… Poles have a BS **ATTITUDE**… Even Gryzelda has on one rare occasion mentioned, what she called “Polish arrogance”.

            Well, “arrogance” is a nicer word than just saying they are **SWINE**!!! @SSHOLES!!! Disgusting! Totally unreasonable!

            If you read about that period, Poles were also trying to get the French to attack Germany for them during this time and CONSTANTLY attacking the Germans in Poland, rapes (very usual for those animals!) beatings, murders… Typical disgusting and VERY Polish behavior…. and the Germans STILL tried to work with those animals. Tried to form an alliance with that scum…. to have a humane crusade and end the Judeo-Bolshevik savagery and slaughter in Europe. There was danger to the rest of Europe as well.

            Hmm…. pretty much like now when you think about it… isn’t it?

            Now I hear the Poles LOUDLY b*tching for the Germans to do something more about what’s going on… They’re very S-L-O-W when it comes to thinking and figuring things out, aren’t they? Like not in minutes or hours… but in terms of GENERATIONS.

            Not a very bright bunch, not at all.
            They came not that long ago from the trees…. there was a reason EVERYONE around them hated them, except for the French fcks of course. But the French didn’t have to live next to them either, so what did they care?

            French are @ssholes too so that’s why the Poles and them like each other.

            Anyway, too bad the Germans don’t have any balls anymore. You can thank the Americans and Judeo-Bolsheviks for that.

            Americans were just being controlled and stupid.

            Speaking of which :)

            I sent the below to a Jewish friend of mine. He no longer argues with me on certain topics…. He used to… and will try to argue with me EVERYWHERE he can as we disagree on many things, as he is ignorant unfortunately…. Jew and atheist of course. He no longer argues with me on the existence of God either. :)

            He tried that one with me as well…
            Anyway, here’s what I sent him a couple days ago…. as a *reminder*.

            There were *many* Jew holocausts you know…. all the time! You should ask me about them.

            ALL “HOLOCAUSTS” LISTED,

            Very well researched and documented

            http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/

            Most things that are “commonly accepted” are just wrong. Most boring!

            That’s why you see more and more attempts to pass laws on free speech, attempts to control the internet, etc….

            Senator Diane Feinstein from California is among those leading the charge on such. Along with Sen. Chuck Schumer from NY. There are many scumbags in America you know, that actually hate the U.S. Constitution they have (falsely) sworn to defend while in public office. They lied of course.

            How WEAK they are!

            But such is “politically correct.”

            But it’s a lie, nevertheless.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            http://anonymouse.org/

            (safety website for easy use for people,
            if they don’t want to use a proxy server)
            —————-
            http://vho.org/
            ————–
            For above, select German if you want.

            http://germarrudolf
            .com/
            ————–

            http://codoh
            .com/

            Above is a good reputable site.

            JewWatch
            .com

            is an interesting little site, lot of broken links,
            A Jewish friend of mine doesn’t like it, but it
            provides a great deal of history.

            ————-
            Holocaust as a search word on you tube brings up a lot of videos
            —————–
            I don’t like censorship. Some people do.

            The weak minded mostly.

            Above is interesting stuff anyway.

          • Melp

            The other option

            If we had won the war,
            with waves impact and roaring storm,
            then Germany could not become saved
            and would be like a madhouse

            One would tame us with notes
            like people of a wild tribe.
            We would jump when sergeants came,
            from the sidewalk and stood at attention.

            If we had won the war,
            then we would be a proud country.
            And pressed yet in our beds
            hands to our sides.

            The women would spawn children
            One child in the year. Or detention.
            The state needs children as tin.
            And blood tastes it like raspberry juice.

            If we had won the war,
            then the sky would be nationally.
            The priest wore epaulettes.
            And God would be a German general.

            The border would be a trench.
            The moon would be a corporal button.
            We would have a caesarean
            and a helmet instead of a head.

            If we had won the war,
            then everyone would be a soldier.
            A nation of shysters and guns!
            And all around would be barbed wire!

            Then would be born on command.
            Because people are pretty cheap.
            And because with cannons
            alone one can not win wars.

            Then the reason would be in chains.
            And would each hour be in court.
            And there’d be war like operettas.
            If we had won the war –
            luckily we did not win it!

            Erich Kaestner

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            MELP! — ACHTUNG!

            “What I have written I have written”:

            “Jens, I was planing to reply to you and Melp later… — had to reply to **BENEATH** me Gryzelda. — Later!”

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I see you believe what “they” told you to “think”… :)

            Ok…. see the posts I just made to “Gryzelda” — and to Jens…. I’ve opened up my profile to the public for awhile again…. so you can refer to the few days before this in my recent exchanges with Gryzelda, where her BS was annoying, till now, with Jens, her, you…

            For what you wrote, let my give you a few links, to think about:
            ———————
            This has some Polish, and the translation is accurate. I KNOW. This vid is simple, not nearly as technical, but it works.
            Guy had to go into hiding because people wanted to kill him… his own kind. You can google more on him for more… The bottommost vid below is more technical. These are enough.

            I made a point of telling “Gryzelda” I wouldn’t give her the below vids… (except for the little 4 minute one below) and other such info. because I have a fair idea of what I am dealing with when it comes to her.

            Certain things she can not handle the little flower… Should really just be bitch-slapped to the point — Ukie fashion were we better acquainted, and told to “Shudup!” Afterwards. :) We are better than you WW2, castrated Germans though as was ALWAYS SAID…
            good Ukie nationalist ALWAYS bragged of even having a drop of German blood. Perhaps I shouldn’t do such any longer Melp.

            https://www.youtube.
            com/watch?v=PWCOjOj4RAU

            if you want to more on the guy David Cole:
            https://www.youtube.
            com/results?search_
            query=David+Cole
            —————————–
            https://www.youtube.

            com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE
            ——————————

            IF you want to know more, that’s “on you” — One of my hero’s is Norman Finkelstein, who wrote the book, a popular seller in Germany a few years back, called, _The Holocaust Industry_ in English. There is a German edition. He’s a good man, who believes in Truth, and has had a hard time, even though he doesn’t go, and won’t go, as “dangerously” as the above.

            You may (probably) need a proxy connection quite possibly. Odd how Truth must hide, eh? 😉 Something VERY wrong about that, But in the end… :)
            Here’s something I also sent to a lying, BSing Jew friend of mine. He’s learned to STFU and not argue with me shall we say.. on the above and many other topics. On EVERY topic.
            For the way things are, are the way things are. Not my problem he’s brainwashed and a liar, now is it? :)

            Good vid below. Too bad Norman is an atheist. He like Jens should ask me about it. :)
            Hmm…. Gryzelda needs some improvement in her data base regarding such…. Polish Catholic you know… ignorant… I am a self taught protestant as it were. 😉 Reform leaning. :)

            American Radical – The Trials of Norman Finkelstein
            https://www.youtube.
            com/watch?v=K8qDpg_x49Y

            =================
            Below is merely “music” — own catagory…
            tried to minor censor it out of you tube. Brief video. Only 4 minutes.
            May take repeated clicks — just to harass people.
            http://tinyurl.com/nqrwy5s

            Consider downloading and saving all of the above… Thinking should be allowed… I SEE the trends against that. Europe is more “advanced” in blocking such. :) Animal people.

      • Andrew Chmilewsky

        EVERYONE around Poland HATED Poles.

        They are just — so very, very “HATABLE”…. Only one that ever liked Poles ever, were the French.

        The French have no character either you know. :)

      • Brent

        Reconciliation starts with acknowledging our past mistakes, as well as those of our ancestors. Many nations have had to face their past, acknowledge it, and this usually seems to allow them to grow more open and prosperous and at peace with themselves and their neighbors. No nation is perfect, but those that can admit past mistakes or transgressions evolve and don’t repeat the bad part of their history. Those that don’t, seem to repeat the same mistakes and never evolve.

        I have yet to see Russia admit any wrongdoing or take responsibility for their past actions. I do not see them evolving as a nation until they can do that. All the revisionist history and blaming other nations for not giving Russia the respect it feels it is entitled to is making them turn back to Soviet times and practices.

        • Jens A

          Regarding admitting wrongdoings: You saw it during the time of Yeltsin and partly during the time of Gorbachev and now you see what little of it there was, has been more than rolled back by Putin.

  • Brent

    Good lord, you’re an idiot! Hitler was never worried about being backed by American financiers or motivated by money. You clearly haven’t read Mein Kampf.

  • disqus_aJpixObjG7

    160,000 one hundred sixty thousand russians fighting with nazi Germany in nazi uniforms no other nation on earth had so many nazi collaborators as “russia” interesting that “russia” ALWAYS accuses others of its own CRIMES

    • Dagwood Bumstead

      More. The total number of Russian Hiwis and others actively fighting with Germany against Stalin is probably around 800,000, among them Cossack units under General von Pannwitz.
      To be fair, there were volunteers from other countries as well. In the Netherlands, about 25,000 volunteered for the Waffen-SS. They served exclusively on the Eastern Front in the “Legion Nederland” which fought around Leningrad and Narva, and in the “Wiking”, which consisted of Danish, Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish, Dutch and Flemish volunteers with a German core. Spain, although officially neutral, sent its “Blue Division” to fight against Stalin.

  • disqus_aJpixObjG7

    LET THE TRUTH FINALLY BE DECLARED LET THE TRUTH FINALLY BE KNOWN LET THE TRUTH FINALLY ENTER THE MEDIA THE ENCYCLOPEDIAS THE UNIVERSITIES THE SCHOOLROOMS: SHARE IT WITH OTHERS. REPUDIATE RUSSIAN HISTORICAL LIES WITH THE TRUTH:

    UKRAINE NOT RUSSIA DEFEATED GERMANY

    FACTS that will eventually rise to blot out the russian
    communist fascist libel against UKRAINE and its history- please share these
    facts with others

    UKRAINE NOT RUSSIA DEFEATED GERMANY

    No, “russia” DID NOT defeat Germany. “russia’s” backside was
    SAVED BY UKRAINE… no more Russian lies needed in this world.

    UKRAINE, NOT “russia” defeated Germany as
    Churchill wrote.

    67% of ALL German forces including air sea land & elite
    and SS forces deployed WORLDWIDE were fighting in …UKRAINE, not in
    some…”russia”.

    UKRAINE LOST 14 MILLION POPULATION IN WW2.

    As of late 1942 the German war effort had UKRAINE not
    “russia” as its EXCLUSIVE priority.

    NO NATION ON EARTH GAVE AS MUCH TO DEFEAT THE AXIS POWERS AS
    DID UKRAINE.

    For every American killed in WW2 FIFTY SIX 56 UKRAINIANS not
    “russians” died.

    It was UKRAINIANS WHO LIBERATED AUSCHWITZ AND ALL THE NAZI
    DEATH CAMPS IN POLAND …

    There are 2270 “RIGHTEOUS” UKRAINIANS HONORED IN
    JERUSALEM WHO RISKED AND GAVE THEIR LIVES TO SAVE JEWS… there are only a mere
    220 “russians.”

    NO NATION ON EARTH GAVE AS MUCH TO SAVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE
    FROM THE HOLOCAUST AS DID …UKRAINE, (NOT…”russia”)

    Let no Jewish person wrongly ever accuse Ukraine of
    anti-Semitism again! Answer the truth to them so that they will be free of the
    russian historical libel against Ukraine.

    UKRAINE’S POPULATION FELL BY 14 MILLION IN WW2!!!!

    ALL THE OTHER SOVIET 14 REPUBLICS PUT TOGETHER PLUS
    “russia” lost a

    total of at most 9 million people in WW2

    UKRAINE LOST 150% as many as all the other soviet republics
    put together!

    UKRAINE, was the VICTOR against Germany NOT…some…”russia”- as Churchill wrote and as the facts declare. ENOUGH of the russian libelous false
    version of history!…

    UKRAINE is NOT “rUSSIA.”

    THESE FACTS WILL PREVAIL as “russia” develops further into a new NORTH KOREA on a massive scale and
    the TRUTH finally comes to light.

  • disqus_aJpixObjG7

    This is a russian chauvinst anti-Ukrainian libelous declaration. You
    are NOT A UKRAINIAN rather you are a russian troll using a Ukrainian
    name.
    Pfui to those who troll online to actively FIGHT for the mass murder of UKRAINIANS they will fall by their own sword!

  • disqus_aJpixObjG7

    смердыуцча катцапска собака

    kris- look how important UKRAINE was as your “russia’s” prize colony for 300 years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_the_Soviet_Union
    UKRAINE ACCOUNTED FOR 55% OF THE ENTIRE SOVIET ECONOMY it fed you russians as you sucked its blood- BUT THOSE DAYS ARE OVER… the ISRAELITE SLAVES HAVE LEFT EGYPT FOR GOOD and your pharaoh will fall

  • Observer

    The article’s major flaw is the assumption that your place of birth or the spelling or your parents’ name determines your nationality.

  • Anastasia Fed

    Oresko was born in the US, if you need verification of any information the US miltary have it’s own historical department that can tell you births and countries of nationality also in the UK w have the National Archives that has loads of information of captured war records from Ukraine – I know we are trying to be friends with the west but all we are doing is doing damage to our cause, be like Romania or Germany and just keep quiet, but the more we carry on the more we harm ourselves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Oresko

  • Anastasia Fed

    If you need verification of anything http://www.history.army.mil/

  • Anastasia Fed