Ukrainians view the people as sovereign; Russians think Putin is

Ukrainian flag: Ukraine is her people

Ukrainian flag: Ukraine is her people 

2015/04/20 • Analysis & Opinion, War in the Donbas

Ukrainians and Russians differ fundamentally in the source of sovereignty in their countries, with Ukrainians, like citizens of Western democracies, viewing the people as sovereign and with the Russians, like the subjects of autocracies of all kinds, assuming that their supreme leader is, according to a new poll.

Irina Bekeshkin, director of the Kucherin Democratic Initiative Foundation in Kyiv, recently conducted a poll in the two countries in which she asked respondents “Who according to the Constitution is the bearer of sovereignty and the source of power in your country?”

55 percent of Russians, but only 26 percent of Ukrainians said that the source of sovereignty and power in their countries was the president, yet another indication, Andrey Illarionov says in reporting this result, that “Russians and Ukrainians are not one people” as Putin imagines.

Although in fact the constitutions of the two countries specify that sovereignty resides with the people, Ukrainians and Russians gave very different answers to this question. Fifty-seven percent of Ukrainians said the people are the source of sovereignty, while only 23 percent of Russians did.

Conversely, Bekeshkin told a recent Russian-Ukrainian roundtable in Kyiv, 55 percent of Russians, but only 26 percent of Ukrainians said that the source of sovereignty and power in their countries was the president, yet another indication, Andrey Illarionov says in reporting this result, that “Russians and Ukrainians are not one people” as Putin imagines.

People in Ukraine “have always known that,” he says, and over the last 18 months, “millions of people in Russia as well have become convinced of that.” Unfortunately, their number does not include Vladimir Putin who not only continues to insist otherwise but to act on his mistaken vision.

The Kremlin leader’s attempts to “realize the chimera of ‘a single people’ in the current Russian-Ukrainian war,” the Russian analyst says, has already resulted in thousands of dead, tens of thousands of wounded, and more than a million refugees. And tragically, there is no end to this carnage in sight.

Putin - killer / Putinversteher

Putin – killer / Putinversteher

Almost a century ago, Illarionov continues, during the Russian civil war, “millions of people became victims of an attempt” by the anti-Bolshevik White Russian forces “to realize the chimera ‘Russia One and Indivisible’” and the victory over them by the Reds “who destroyed tens of millions more by their terror.”

“How many citizens – in one’s own land and in its neighbors – “ he asks in despair about Putin’s policies, “are going to be condemned to be sacrificed to the criminal chimera of ‘a single people’ in the new war that has been unleashed?”

Edited by: A. N.

Tags: , , , , ,

  • LorCanada

    Looks as if Putin is trying to salvage what he can from the chaos and destruction he caused in east Ukraine, like picking through the rubble of a bombed out building. I doubt very much most Ukrainians want anything to do with Putin’s idea of “brotherly love” or “unity”. Perhaps after he is gone things might improve. For now it’s a hostile environment, to put it mildly.

  • Czech Friend

    Russians do not belong to Europe. Not until they deal with Putler and his fascist mafia. #FreeSavchenko

    • Michel Cloarec

      Idiot, without Europe you would not have Google and Facebook to spew your stupidities ! When Jeltsin wanted to sale russia to Europe , EU responded Njet comrad Jeltsin, it would take 100 years to put back to order as a country.

      • Michel Cloarec

        You only changed avatar ! I see who you are ! next it is insults as usual . Always the same terms and words coming out !

        • John Shirley

          They are required to do that.
          Troll factory 102. “If someone out wits you and makes you look like a complete moron, then you must first insult them mercilessly and secondly “flag” their comment for removal before other readers discover that you are an total
          Idiot.
          Google “Russian Troll Factory” Good reading especially accounts from former employees of the factory.

    • Murf

      Not according to Putin.

      • Murf

        Russian invades and dismembers a former ally but the enviable reaction by Europe is all their fault.
        That is the logic of Putlerstan. A wonderful place were everything is someone else’s fault.
        Russian trade dropped 30% last year as a direct consequence of Putin’s actions.
        No more, No less.
        Blame the world for your woes, but absent the Little Green Men in Crimea, Russia would be on top of the world right now.
        Instead you are struggling with a recession that will take years to recover from.
        Enjoy your barren peninsula and the parts of two shattered provinces. You earned them.

        • Andrew Chmilewsky

          Well Murf….. they DID at least LOOT some factories that they could use, military wise… some advanced radar stuff, etc… Blew up a lot of coal mines…. infra structure… They seemed to have been surprised that the Ukes “sealed off” the RUSSO-MONGOLIAN INFECTION….. Poroshenko is reputed to have TOLD Putin — “you want it, TAKE IT!” — Putin is reputed to have said, “are you crazy? I don’t need it!”

          It was to have been a TROJAN HORSE part of Ukeland, and a NEGATIVE BLOCK on ANYTHING Ukeland was to have done in terms of NATO, the EU…. Part of a “federalization” that would have made Ukeland into, little regions…. an effective dismemberment…. That and to ALSO (key point here!) BLOCK “UKRAINIAZIATION” — and thus — to CONTINUE the RUSSIFICATION OF UKRAINE! — Most people don’t “get” that “plot of the centuries”…. The (FALSE!!) “claim” that Russo-mongolians and Ukes “are one people” — NOT QUITE! AND MOST CERTAINTY NOT AT ALL *GENETICALLY* — Finno-Ugric-mongoloidols are not even Slavic. (That BOTHERS THE HELL OF THEM — WHEN I POINT IT OUT TO THEM :))) — And they ATTEMPT (weakly!) to argue against that… FAIL!!! :)

          They DON’T KNOW SHEIS!!!

          • Murf

            “TROJAN HORSE part of Ukeland, and a NEGATIVE BLOCK on ANYTHING Ukeland was to have done in terms of NATO, the EU..”

            That is why I have maintained that this crisis is a blessing in disguise. Almost 6 million Putin lovers have been taken out of the UA political process. This was the core of Putin’s influence. Absent these areas the PoR is hamstrung. Crimea was a 1 billion drag on the economy. Donbas subsidies were braking the budget.I realize losing these areas is a blow to the national psyche but UA needs political unity not territory. It’s already one of the largest in Europe.
            So I think UA should give up Crimea and cut the best deal they can. Let Donbas become a grey zone like Transnistia. Every resource spent in that disloyal region are resources that can not be used in regions that can be manipulated in to rebellion. Better they are spent in Kharkiv on heavy industry. in the west improving agriculture production or the high tech industry and the fledgling IT.
            Donbas and Crimea were holding back Ukraine’s development. So good riddance.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Ukeland was a couple months from getting the major oil companies from coming in for the off shore oil and gas. Would have been a net exporter.

            Also do note, Lavrov is LOUDLY pushing for (of course) “federalization” (except for Russia) and (this is KEYI!)
            “an end to Ukrainiazation”.

            Russification has ALWAYS been a key element of Ruskie for CENTURIES.

            You still can’t pick-up a history text or political article without reading sheies.

            Ukrainiazation would, can and will turn things around. For over 20 years, Ukie was the OFFICIAL languge, (to overturn the Russification of hundreds of years) — Than Yanukowycz — made a “law” — that in any area, that CLAIMED to be 10% Ruskie, — that had to be “accomodated” (i.e. PUSHED) in schools — courts, government…. i.e. Russification was CONTINUED.

            Don’t forget…. the whole BS of those Ruskie savages was “GENOCIDE AGAINST RUSSIAN SPEAKERS!!!!”

            — note — Russian SPEAKERS not Russians. It’s AMAZING to me, how Russkie will lie and say, “we are the same” — and as an AMERICAN, attempt to convince me :))))
            That “Ukrainian and Russian, and the LANGUAGES as well — are almost the same.” :))))

            Nah’….. Polish I can “get by in” …. Ruskie? NO WAY!!! So who’s lying here?

            And THIS BS …. the ALWAYS DO! Even to tell Dominicans I know…. EVERYONE!!! ALWAYS…. even “innocent Americans like me who ask them”…. IT’S **CULTURAL**…. almost GENETIC…. I sweal! AMAZING!!! Thus, the Ukrainiazation… is TOTALLY NECESSARY…. For re-integration…. and DE-Russification. You’ll see the shitty trolls lying about such from time to time btw…. And they WILL push it…. and Americans for the most part, don’t know sh^t, as you well know….they even broke their arms to trying to get the nukes from Ukeland to “safety” in Russia…. Now they’re threatened by them :)

            GOOD! Fa’k ’em fo’ being STUPID as sh*t!

          • Murf

            I never bought that BS about if they speak Russian then they HAVE to BE Russians. The US and Canada both speak English. It’s so close in accent it is hard for us to tell each other apart, depending on where you are from. But we are different they have their way an we have ours. Aside from the ego boost of have USA over the whole of North America there is no reason to join together and upset that.
            But I guess a Russian ego boost is what this has really been all about.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf summed it all up when he ROTE THUSLY:

            “But I guess a Russian ego boost is what this has really been all about.”

            Murf…. that’s ENTIRELY IT. I knew this Ruskie, he wasn’t stupid like they usually are…. Now I’m an American… so OK… he was from “there”…. shortly after they collapsed… working with TASS NEWS AGENCY IN NYC.

            As he put it to me… Because the Russians were getting all the money… from the U.S., Germany, etc… So they were doing better then the rest of the ex-Soviet Union…
            So —- he said… to THIS AMERICAN… “you know… Russia is doing pretty well… maybe the other republics should get some advice from Russia.”

            I didn’t wish to be rude, for I liked the fellow… and say — “VICTOR! Who do you THINK f’aked it all up in the FIRST PLACE? Maybe they ALL should LISTEN TO THE US, ya’ think? — AND NEVER TO YOU RUSKIE!” :)

            If the Ruskie can NOT tell, CONTROL, get an “ego boost” out of the Ukes… they — from THEIR SCREWED UP MIND SETS — HAVE NOTHING…

            You think they want to DEVELOP THEIR OWN COUNTRY OR SOMETHING MURF? :)

            They’re too CRAZY AND STUPID… you just hit it on the head with your observation.

            Look at how these Ruskied Trolls “argue” and “think” — look at how the pro-Ukie posters argue and think.

            That pretty much tell you a lot right here. Notice how they ALWAYS (Ruskie) play the game of “I’ll try this one… maybe it will work this time, because he’s stupid, I’m smart, and he might have forgot.” — THAT’S HOW THE RUSKIE SCUMBAGS THINK!

            You know…. I find the Zionists think exactly the same way. I’m serous. But that’s an entirely diferent topic.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf summed it all up when he ROTE THUSLY:

            “But I guess a Russian ego boost is what this has really been all about.”

            Murf…. that’s ENTIRELY IT. I knew this Ruskie, he wasn’t stupid like they usually are…. Now I’m an American… so OK… he was from “there”…. shortly after they collapsed… working with TASS NEWS AGENCY IN NYC.

            As he put it to me… Because the Russians were getting all the money… from the U.S., Germany, etc… So they were doing better then the rest of the ex-Soviet Union…
            So —- he said… to THIS AMERICAN… “you know… Russia is doing pretty well… maybe the other republics should get some advice from Russia.”

            I didn’t wish to be rude, for I liked the fellow… and say — “VICTOR! Who do you THINK f’aked it all up in the FIRST PLACE? Maybe they ALL should LISTEN TO THE US, ya’ think? — AND NEVER TO YOU RUSKIE!” :)

            If the Ruskie can NOT tell, CONTROL, get an “ego boost” out of the Ukes… they — from THEIR SCREWED UP MIND SETS — HAVE NOTHING…

            You think they want to DEVELOP THEIR OWN COUNTRY OR SOMETHING MURF? :)

            They’re too CRAZY AND STUPID… you just hit it on the head with your observation.

            Look at how these Ruskied Trolls “argue” and “think” — look at how the pro-Ukie posters argue and think.

            That pretty much tell you a lot right here. Notice how they ALWAYS (Ruskie) play the game of “I’ll try this one… maybe it will work this time, because he’s stupid, I’m smart, and he might have forgot.” — THAT’S HOW THE RUSKIE SCUMBAGS THINK!

            You know…. I find the Zionists think exactly the same way. I’m serous. But that’s an entierly diferent topic.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf — just wanted to “echo” you again:

            “But I guess a Russian ego boost is what this has really been all about.”

            They are sh*ts! It’s really as simple as that, isn’t it?

          • Murf

            I have rarely seen a national identity with a bigger chip on their shoulder than Russia. With literally millions of square kilometers of underdeveloped territory why would they give two shits about a tiny piece belt rust belt provinces like Donbas?
            Because they mistake fear for respect.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf ROTE:
            “With literally millions of square kilometers of underdeveloped territory
            why would they give two shits about a tiny piece belt rust belt
            provinces like Donbas?”

            I was wondering about that too….

            However, besides some defense and military factories to loot, which they have, those areas do have a mostly Ukie population. Not an Asiatic population. Russians always wanted that. For they claim to be “Slavic” :) Yet, they do know they’re not. Never underestimate the racism of Ruskie. :) Such things helps to “feed” their insecurities if they have, “inferior” Ukes. Yet they at the same time acknowledge Ukes to be Slavic, lighter skinned, etc… :) Go figure!

            “Because they mistake fear for respect.”

            That sentence above struck me. Was in a cell phone store once, a couple years back, when this young Russian guy… speaking nostalgically, told me, about Russia, “we were the strongest nation in the world, once the world used to be afraid of us” sadness in his voice.

            So your mentioning that, triggered that memory. Go figure, right?

            A link for your possible interest. Doesn’t do anything for Ukeland though.

            http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/industry/2015/04/25/poland-eyes-fund-to-arm-eastern-europe/26292901/

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            addendum Murf….. MOST of the people in Luhansk and Donetsk do NOT wanna be Russian… lots of those who fled to Russia, were merely ESCAPING WAR…. Recall that Strelkov/Girkin BEMOANED the fact that he couldn’t put together a thousand men. — Mercenaries, imports!!! NOT “local yokels” AS IS CLAIMED…. BUT Ruski scum of all kinds…. are being imported… SCUM…. SUCKERS… FOOLS…. Ruskie and other asiatics.
            Raping, looting, pieces of sh^t.

            Tradition you know….

          • Murf

            Well one must respect tradition after all!
            The suffering to the average person who could care a less is always the tragedy of these things.
            But unfortunately this is where things stand.
            For now.
            Ukraine can not win militarily at this time. Putin will always up the ante and he can throw more than Ukraine can. Unfortunately he is running out of options. He still only took Debal’tseve by violating Minsk II. The Terminal and Debal’tseve were very exposed positions. Every where else they made little progress, capturing only some villages and sunflower fields. They lost critical ground in front of Mariupol and Pisky. As painful as it was to loose Dabel’tseve, Ukraine was better of with what gained than what they lost.
            The problem for Putin is that there is no more low hanging fruit and the supposed easy ones were expensive. He has committed all the toys he can short of air power which is a major escalation.
            Several, such as the etent o their jamming capability, they REALLY did not want NATO to know about. Just something s simple as monitoring their decision cycle time(the time from and order is received to when it is carried out is important.

            At this point Ukraine’s successful reform and prosperity are the best weapon they have now. The billions that need to be spent just to make that region functional are best spent else where. I would rather see the money go towards tax credits to improve energy efficiency. lowering the corporate tax rate to 19% an make Ukraine competitive with Poland. Reforming the education system to get western accreditation. rebuilding roads, loans to start up IT companies. All in the regions that were loyal to their nation.
            After a few years the remaining people in Donbs will grow tired of being ruled by those clowns and be willing to return.

            I will also admit I am not that sympathetic to the people of Donbas. A few hundred farmers and miners with shot guns could have stopped Streklov and his thugs as soon as they appeared. Their support or lack of resistance means they gave their tact approval.
            They made adult choices, now they get to pay the adult price.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf ROTE:

            “Well one must respect tradition after all! The suffering to the average person who could care a less is always the tragedy of these things.
            But unfortunately this is where things stand. For now. Ukraine can not win militarily at this time. Putin will always up the ante and he can throw more than Ukraine can.”

            Obama made sure of that. The faqqot.

            “Unfortunately he is running out of
            options. He still only took Debal’tseve by violating Minsk II.”

            As the cliche goes, “so what?” He paid no penalty for that. He’s a Russo-mongolian.

            “The Terminal and Debal’tseve were very exposed positions. Every where else they made little progress, capturing only some villages and sunflower fields.”

            They GOT what they NEEDED AND WANTED THERE. A TRANSPORTATION HUB.

            “They lost critical ground in front of Mariupol and Pisky. As painful as it was to loose Dabel’tseve, Ukraine was better of with what gained than what they lost.”

            I would disagree there.

            “The problem for Putin is that there is no more low hanging fruit and the supposed easy ones were expensive. He
            has committed all the toys he can short of air power which is a major
            escalation. Several, such as the etent o their jamming capability,
            they REALLY did not want NATO to know about. Just something s simple as monitoring their decision cycle time(the time from and order is received to when it is carried out is important.”

            Evidently — worth the gain.

            “At this point Ukraine’s
            successful reform and prosperity are the best weapon they have now. The
            billions that need to be spent just to make that region functional are
            best spent else where. I would rather see the money go towards tax
            credits to improve energy efficiency. lowering the corporate tax rate to
            19% an make Ukraine competitive with Poland. Reforming the education system to get western accreditation. rebuilding roads, loans to start up IT companies. All in the regions that were loyal to their nation.”

            It’s ALWAYS “easy” and “CHEAP” to screw things up…. A cheap explosive can bring down an EXPENSIVE bridge. Note the planned destruction to INFRASTRUCTURE. No accident.

            “After a few years the remaining people in Donbs will grow tired of being ruled by those clowns and be willing to return.”

            They are TIRED and were TIRED from the beginning Murf! Who wants that BS in their neighborhood?

            “I will also admit I am not that sympathetic to the people of Donbas. A few hundred farmers and miners with shot guns could have stopped
            Streklov and his thugs as soon as they appeared.”

            Easy to say… assuming you HAVE THE ARMS AND THE ORGANIZATION…. “Governments” are just “big gangs” by default and definition.

            “Their support or lack of resistance means they gave their tact approval.
            They made adult choices, now they get to pay the adult price.”

            I wouldn’t be so harsh. In Luhansk….AT THE BEGINNING THERE, when the Russians were doing their BS…. they went into the boonies…. the farming area… there were met by about several hundred farmers, in the boonies… and they were told…. “we don’t want your kind around here, in these here parts…”
            Russians understood… They left.

            When, you, who are not organized, have no gun, and you have ARMED FRANKLY CRIMINAL GROUPS… you and the guy next door, are not about to get out your baseball bats…. Terror was used… rapes, murders, robberies…. TORTURE… TERROR…. that — “sells”… and TERRIFIES…. Strelkov/Girkin WHINED THAT HE COULDN’T GET A THOUSAND MAN FORCE UP in the entire area. How big a force does it take to control a small city ONCE you have the 50 or 60 SPECIAL RUSSIAN MILITARY FORCE KNOCK OUT THE MAIN COP STATIONS? Then hire a few local thugs? I’m not going out with a baseball bat against anything like that. No way! — If you have a family? No way? IN THE OPEN…. With the several hundred Ukie farmers — ARMED…. they didn’t mess with.

            Later on… more military, mercenaries etc… came in. From ALL OVER the Ruskie federation… I have read of too many torture victims, etc…. people being beaten or killed for speaking Ukie…. Terror — WORKS Murf! I’ve also heard of some of these heroes who came to “SAVE DANBAS” — leave and say “the people said we were ‘occupiers'”.

            School teachers in Donbas…. getting together, with the Ukie colors, gathered on a bridge, as a group… asking for this BS in Donbas to end. Now they don’t dare do that anymore, to gather like that. I don’t blame them.

          • Murf

            Well Andrew they had several objectives to make the DPR/LPR somewhat economicly viable;
            The power station in Luhansk.
            The Debal’tseve rail junction.
            The air port terminal.
            The Coke Plant at Adiivika.
            Mariupol.
            The only ones they could take were the two hopelessly exposed ones; The terminal and the rail junction.
            The terminal will have to be demolished. the Rail Junction is still out of service an will be for a long time. they had to concentrate almost every thing they had to secure the Rail junction.
            The power station and coke plant have been shelled and will probably be destroyed if they are taken.
            Mariupol, as we discued before, will be a tough nut to crack. Given Ukraine resistance thus far if Maiupol does fall it will also be wrecked. and useless to them.
            So far Putin is NOT winning. He may have got what he wanted but you didn’t give him much.
            This has cost him WAY more than he ever planned. Ukraine is even father out of his control. He is politically isolated. and he is having trouble controlling his underlings(Kaderov and the FSB). and his economy is in full blown recession.
            Ukraine just needs to hold on, keep rebuilding the economy and military, an be ready when the opportunity presents it’s self.
            I am hard on the people of Donbas but that is the harsh calculus of war. Putin thinks on that level, if you are going to beat him, Ukraine will have to also.
            Also The Hybrid War tactic worked in Donbas for a reason.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Murf SAID:

            “Well Andrew they had several objectives to make the DPR/LPR somewhat economically viable;
            The power station in Luhansk.
            The Debal’tseve rail junction.
            The air port terminal.
            The Coke Plant at Adiivika.
            Mariupol.”

            Hmm…. excellent summation here.

            “The only ones they could take were the two hopelessly exposed ones; The terminal and the rail junction.
            The
            terminal will have to be demolished. the Rail Junction is still out of
            service an will be for a long time. they had to concentrate almost every
            thing they had to secure the Rail junction.”

            True, true, and they got it! Thus, they deprived the Ukes from having it. ALSO A POINT! A lot of the local Ukie commanders wanted to make some probes and counter strikes. They just sat around like assholes.

            OTOH, they obviously were facing superior forces, weaponry, highly trained troops. They had sheiss.

            “The power station and coke plant have been shelled and will probably be destroyed if they are taken.
            Mariupol,
            as we discussed before, will be a tough nut to crack. ”

            True… but it seems they have a hell of a lot of hardware there…. A LOT!
            It’s effectively the last bust stop before Crimea as you know. I’ve seen some military scenarios discussed, they have a NUMBER of options to play. Along the whole line, OR along the whole line THAN A MOVE to Mariupol and Crimea, OR, OR, OR….

            “Given Ukraine
            resistance thus far if Maiupol does fall it will also be wrecked. and
            useless to them.”

            Useless to THEM but also to Ukeland. THAT’S THE POINT as well Murf! Ideally the mongols want the entire coast. That would be nice for them! What is to REALLY STOP THEM? — REALLY?

            “So far Putin is NOT winning. He may have got what he wanted but you didn’t give him much. ”

            He DESTABILIZED THE PLACE… Surely THAT is worth a great deal to him? (It’s STUPID… But… not for the mongols.) LOOK how the Mongol Trolls are talking? — as though the U.S. is really fighting them. And have you noticed? The Mongoloidols new tactic is to call REAL POSTERS “trolls”? — Because everyone knows Ruskie are trolls — thus that “clever mind fak game” … Disgusting basards that they are…. BUT — they DO stifle real communication, and get attention like a little b^tch… so they don’t get too bored… They always try to suck you in… the faqqots of the internet as it were.

            “This
            has cost him WAY more than he ever planned. Ukraine is even father out
            of his control.”

            He can AFFORD IT! — Mongoloidols will eat more rats. So what?

            ” He is politically isolated. and he is having trouble
            controlling his underlings(Kaderov and the FSB). and his economy is in
            full blown recession.”

            Ah!!!! ALL FOR THE HOLY CAUSE MURF! — You KNOW HOW STUPID THEY ARE!

            “Ukraine just needs to hold on, keep rebuilding the economy and military, an be ready when the opportunity presents it’s self.”

            Murf! — it’s the MONEY! — Think of the Fakin’ MONEY! A dollar for a bomb can do a thousand in damage!

            “I
            am hard on the people of Donbas but that is the harsh calculus of war.
            Putin thinks on that level, if you are going to beat him, Ukraine will
            have to also. ”

            Understand the brutal calculus.

            “Also The Hybrid War tactic worked in Donbas for a reason.”

            I disagree with you here. They didn’t really have a “reaction force” in the cop stations…. after the MILITARY took out the main centers…. THAT WAS IT for the precinct level stuff… I’m not going out there with a baseball bat either!

            From what I’ve read… they figured it out now…. in terms of “the cops” and having a real back-up for the cops… IF you have REAL MILITARY COMING IN… Which is what you did have! Something like what happened there would work in most places… UNLESS — you had a 2nd Amendment… and “a right to bare arms” thing… Which btw, the Ukes are approving, law wise… With a baseball bat…. me and a couple guys… dealing with TORTURING, MONGOL, @SSHOLES…. Nope! Not me… and hopefully, not you either! John Wayne at least was armed!

        • Murf

          That has been thrashed so many times it is not worth repeating.
          Short version:
          Yoanuko murdered protesters.
          He lost all his supporters.
          He fled to Russia.
          The Rada unanimously voted to impeach him.
          They appointed an interim Government.
          Elections were held.
          A President was chosen.
          None of this justifies an invasion.

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            Global Research??? :) That Ruskie communist group?

            Just use RT :)

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            I KNOW that GlobalResearch .ca is Canadian. I don’t need a LYING Russo-mongolian to tell me that.

            As for the Guardian, they make errors and report such and usually, correct it later on…. and they ALSO bitch about you Russo-mongolian rapists and child molesters in Ukraine.

            Euro-asiatic SCUM…. Finno-Ugric-mongoloidol to be more accurate if you prefer. CHEW ON THE BELOW… faqqot Monhol and rapist. Get out of Europe and go back to Asia with your own kind! ASIATIC lying SCUM! Lying Ruskie troll filth!

            “P’tfu!” — PLUYOU!!! Ruskie!!! Kurva! Your women now only yop for Euros and dollars! Ruskie kurveh!
            ===================

            PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLOIDOL HORDE TROLLS (with many accounts):

            Cut ‘n Paste this to have this ready in a doc file on your desktop, to alert people. Good for when you get sick of the LYING RUSSIAN TROLLS or “LRTs”.
            PAID LYING RUSSO-MONGOLOIDAL HORDE TROLLS (with many accounts):

            On those comments sections of articles about Ukraine and Russia? Wherever you get your news, and you see the COWARDLY, LYING, USUALLY ANON. RUSSIANS with “Western sounding” names frequently?

            Upon spotting a LYING RUSSIAN TROLL, don’t even waste time on those LYING RUSSIANS. They LIVE for it! And they’re getting PAID to lie. It’s “a Russian thing” to lie. Always has been. It’s cultural. From history on to any topic, THEY LIE. — Russians…. how it is. For an 8 hour shift, they get $36 a day (worth $18 now – and still going down) and a cheap lunch you wouldn’t give your dog. As the noted and great American wit and observer of Russia wrote:

            “Fish swim, birds fly, dogs bark, Russians lie.” – Dan Ramsey http://WWW.KyivPost.com commentator.

            LYING RUSSIAN TROLLS – all over the net. About all those lying, cowardly, anonymous Russian Trolls – fooling the suckers:

            RUSSIA IS A DYING NATION: SOME STATISTICS
            There are only 110 million ethnic Russians there and 30% of adult men are officially declared alcoholics. Two out of three ethnic Russian men were drunk while they died. The average life expectancy of a Russian male is less than 58 years. Here some data from the 2012 WHO report based on data filed by Russia’s statistical authorities. The numbers Khan Putin doesn’t want you to see!
            http://tinyurl.com/p8gwaay

            Russia’s top 100 lies about Ukraine (WITH PHOTO DOCUMENTATION)
            — by Julia Davis — BRILLIANT!
            (links to the first 20. 40, 60, 80 lies in the page below)
            http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine

            Also check out Julia Davis’ FB page and give her a “like” and consider “following.” She covers U.S. news as well. — FAST, QUICK, BRIEF, TERSE!
            https://www.facebook.com/FilmMouse?fref=tl_fr_box

            Graphics:
            The Little Girl – Russian claims
            http://tinyurl.com/p45gh4b

            Russian Terrorists Using Ukrainian Children as Human Shields
            http://tinyurl.com/llpmcdw

            Putin’s Militants Torture & Kill Ukrainians: US Mass Media Keeps Silence (and they put it on Russian state tv!) (WARNING! GRAPHIC!)
            http://spectrumhr.org/?p=1983

            Evil Fat Russian Priest – caught at last!
            http://tinyurl.com/psqo4of

            Russian claims on Ukrainian Army
            http://tinyurl.com/n2yafxv

            Claim of Ukrainian morgue of dead civilians killed by army
            http://tinyurl.com/pgy5hoq

            Russian Terrorists Kill Animals
            http://tinyurl.com/qdedgn9

            The Opinion-Makers: How Russia Is Winning the Propaganda War
            SPIEGEL ONLINE INTERNATIONAL
            http://tinyurl.com/qysyqp7

            Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America – BuzzFeed News
            http://tinyurl.com/lv9exl6

            The readers’ editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories -Guardian moderators, who deal with 40,000 comments a day, believe there is
            an orchestrated pro-Kremlin campaign
            http://tinyurl.com/obud4d3

            Inside Putin’s Campaign Of Social Media Trolling And Faked Ukrainian Crimes
            http://tinyurl.com/lvcz87y

            Russian Propaganda Is Taking Over Online Comment Boards
            http://tinyurl.com/opsq64l

            Russia’s Online-Comment Propaganda Army
            http://tinyurl.com/n2z6ebe

            Russia’s information warriors are on the march – we must respond – The Daily Telegraph
            http://tinyurl.com/od92ub3
            —————————————–
            Internet Troll Operation Uncovered in St. Petersburg
            http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=100&story_id=38052
            —————————————–
            Russia’s 30-Ruble Army Emerges Again
            http://www.rferl.org/content/russia_30_ruble_army_emerges_again/24477703.html

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            It’s now VERY WELL KNOWN …. about the FSB and Russkie in Ukie uniforms, etc… Senior officers and a couple generals visiting…. the CONSTANT LYING AND DISTORTIONS…. this is known… I’m not going to BOTHER to “convince” a PAID, RUSSO-MONGOLIAN ASIATIC TROLL…. :)

            Go do your shift… get bored…. type into the air…. :)

            It’s “your Russo-mongolian BS job”. :)
            RUSSIAN!!!

          • The truth

            The guardian is a communist newspaper . With a certain Phillips in its rank . NICE TRY !

          • The truth

            Don´t use Global research as references . It is a book shop founded by Michel Chossudovsky to sell his own books about the conspiration theories ! The last book is called THE GLOBALIZATION OF WAR . costs 14$ . Give an idea of the quality. But of course probably becoming the new bibel for the anti-ukrainian obstructionists .

          • Andrew Chmilewsky

            yeah…. that’s right…. his people go back and forth to RT, Alex Jones, other such.

            Part of the Soviet circuit of BS. Works on some… but the trolls ALWAYS repeat the same BS because they get paid by the post and figure they’ll find a fool somewhere.

            Russian trolls….. just scum.

          • Murf

            This in the same category as the various BS excuses and evasions for MH-17. Gobal Research is a propaganda organ of Russia. It has less crediblity than Fox News.

          • Murf

            Well that is what the dutch investigation said. Which is certainly more credible then the sloppy photo shopped picture of a Ukrainian fighter shooting down the plane.
            Now THAT was lol.
            One has to only know who’s territory the plane was over to know who shot it down

          • Michel Cloarec

            Think that the terrorists with the aid of russians specialists knew that (or believed) that it was putin plane flying around. They wanted to shoot putin´s plane , start a coup in Kremlin to install Kadyrov as president of RF. Think again about the connexion with the murder of Nemtsov by chechen partisans. It is russia, everything is possible !
            I wonder how the world would react if Kadyrov became the president of the russian federation . Maybe it would end the tragedies in middle east ! All would be forgotten, everybody would love everybody . Peace on earth , no iran missile, not necessary anymore , nothing to defend , MAKE LOVE NO WAR ! WHAT A LOVELY WORLD !

      • The truth

        Because putin mixes business with geopolitical claims .

        Mistaking trade pacts and financial institutions for political blocs can be dangerous. It creates a competitive frame, which makes leaders attach too much political significance to economic issues, Ukraine being the worst scenario yet. An Association Agreement with the EU was seen in Moscow as an infringement on its legitimate interests, while the Kremlin’s attempt to maintain close economic ties with Kiev was seen as pressure and even coercion. We all know how this ended.This sort of perception bias is evident in the way many approach the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) project – another ambitious grouping, promoted by Moscow. No matter how pure Russia’s intentions may be, the cause of safeguarding tight economic ties with its nearest neighbours will often be seen as a geopolitical ambition at least, if not a bid to recreate the Soviet Union.

  • Turtler

    Looks like a Kremlin troll has decided to ape an accurate comment in the stupidest, sloppiest way.

    Firstly, “the chaos and destruction which the anti-yanukovich putch (SIC) caused”? Yanukovych’s thugs killed dozens of people long before he was deposed. He also tore the country apart in the cold “civil war” that had lasted about a decade. That’s not damage that can be attributed to his removal after the fact.

    And secondly; there was no putSch (it’s with an s, lunkhead). Yanukovych was found to be in contempt of the Ukrainian constitution and was duly removed AS ACCORDING TO THE LAW HE SWORE TO UPHOLD. It is the sovereign right of the people to depose a government or members of it when they violate the contract and become despotic.

    Yanukovych was. Yanukovych knew that. Which was why he fled rather than be impeached and tried with the words straight from his own mouth (which also lets the “if the President cannot/will not execute the functions of office..” part allowing for his removal).

    “how much longer will ukrainians tolerate poroshenko’s (and yatsenyuk’s) war in which ukrainians kill ukrainians?”

    They don’t have a choice. This isn’t Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk’s war. This is Putin’s, attacking Ukraine whether it wants it or not. You cannot make a compromise with someone who will not acknowledge you exist or stop attacking you.

    Which is why the Ukrainians cannot stop fighting even if they want to.

    ” how much do western ukrainians value the “unity” of two politically dissimilar regions”

    About the same as most Eastern Ukrainians. Overwhelmingly so.

    “east ukraine is being forced by horrific violence to submit to the political will of the kiev junta.”

    BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULSHIIIIT!

    Eastern Ukraine is being subjected to horrific violence by Putin and his thugs. The sheer difference in artillery usage, troop numbers, and equipment underlines that. Which is why the Ukrainian government can operate freely in places not beset by terrorist irregulars or the Russian army, while Putin’s proxies can only impose themselves by force (such as at Debaltseve. Not exactly a liberation with flags flying, was that?).

    And in spite of that overwhelming force, the inability of the Ukrainian government to operate effectively, and Putin’s brutality over HALF of the Donbas has remained Loyalist. What does that say to y ou?

    “the hostility in ukraine is generated by the ruling oligarchs in kiev, as usual….”

    “As usual”? You mean during that time when the ruling oligarch of Kyiv was a Putin proxy (Yanukovych, etc. al.)?

    That is why the lies invariably fall apart. Because even you rown claims boomarang back into your face.

    • Turtler

      If hijacking better, smarter posts and injecting your own brand of ignorance into them- like a body snatcher- is the best you can do, don’t bother.

      I’m not the only one blaming the Russian regime for the violence in Ukraine. Putin did. He declared that he decided to invade Crimea to start this war, albeit with the usual brand of lies and half-justifications.

      He said as much on live TV.. So what do you say to that?

      As for a fair trial for crimes against humanity, how the HELL would you finesse that with the little thing called “The Budapest Memorandum” and admissions from the very height of the Russian state?

      You can’t. Because you’re just an unconvincing liar. Neeeext!

      • Michel Cloarec

        Bull shit again ! Crimea was invaded by russian military 2 days before the elections . You are a failure as infos sources .

        • Murf

          So if group of Americans settle own in St Petersburg an decided they want to join the Us you would be ok with that right?
          I will bet you were all for Chechen Independence?
          If the ethnic Finns in Karlina polled high numbers for rejoining Finland? I;ll bet you would be saying “let the annexation BEGIN!
          If in June of 2003, Bush had announced that the Kurds were going to have a referendum on joining the US (and it could have happened) thus dismembering Iraq you would have said “You go for it George!”
          Yet some how it was Ok to do it in Crimea?

      • Turtler

        “russia did not “invade” crimea:”

        Yes it did. What’s more, the laws and treaties that Russia signed to (including the Budapest Memorandum and the UN Charter) confirm it.

        So is the R government telling the truth now, or was it telling the truth THEN?

        “russian mililtary was already there, as they had been for many decades.”

        And? That means Fuck All.

        The only legal justification they had to remain there was the legal agreements with the Ukrainian government. Agreements that REQUIRED they not move troops into the majority of Crimea proper, and recognize Ukrainian territorial sovereignty.

        Russia was forbidden to invade the rest of Crimea, or annex any part of it.

        The Russian regime knew this and violated it anyway. They used Russian military forces to invade Crimea outside of the designated base areas and then manufactured one of the most incomeptent and unnecessary vote rigging exercises I have ever seen.

        As such, Russia and her armed forces have forfeited ANY RIGHTS WHATSOEVER to have Russian bases or material in Ukrainian territory. *PERIOD.* And it is well within the law for Ukraine to attack and wipe out every single soldier bearing arms against her.

        As any n to an attacker would constitute.

        “there is NO WAY putin was going to allow the EU-instigated putsch to take it away from russia”

        Firstoff, it was not a putsch and it was not instigated by the EU. It was instigated by Yanukovych violating the Ukrainian constitution and thus rendering his authority legally invalid. Up until he was deposed in accordance with the Ukrainian constitution You Fuckheads Can Never Bother To Look Up.

        Secondly: Contrary to the opinion of totalitarian psychotics like yourself and Putin, it was NEVER HIS PLACE to “allow” or “not allow” them to do so. It was between Russia and the Ukrainian government, and *IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.*

        As it stands, it’s highly unlikely ANYBODY would have tried to evict the Russian military from its’ bases in Crimea before the lease ran down had it not been for Putin panicking (again), and deciding to launch an invasion rendering those bases illegal.

        So if Russia loses its’ bases to ANYBODY, it will be because of Putin’s perfidy in scrapping of the terms that allowed them to exist in the first place.

        “so they asked the people who lived there whether they would like to
        officially join russia, and the people overwhelmingly decided to ask to
        join russia.”

        Except for the fact that they only decided that A FULL DAY AFTER THE ANNEXATION WAS DECLARED.

        I still have records of the comments I and a few others made in real time on Skype.

        Crimea was and is the most fervently pro-Russian part of Ukraine there is. And yet Putin felt obliged to illegally invade it, LIE that he was doing so, intimidate (and kill) any Ukrainian officials and opponents, and institute martial law on the peninsula in order to hold a horrifically illegal and flawed referendum.

        That he then made even more ludicrous by declaring Crimea’s annexation a full day before the vote was scheduled to end. And thus robbing the results of any credibility they might have had. In the most transparently stupid and self-defeating way possible.

        When a simplest vote would have probably done him better.

        So you can’t claim that this was the will of the Crimean people. The will of the Crimean people meant Nothing in this, and at most it was a happy coincidence whether Putin’s actions fit it or not.

        “and that is the way the facts on the ground show themselves now….”

        You must assume that everybody is as ill informed as you are.

        “of course a fair trial for poroshenko and yatsenyuk would be hard to
        arrange, but i am confident it could be done…. ”

        After all, if the totalitarian dictatorship wants to murder its’ victims slowly from the persecution’s stand, they will do it.

        “it is not normal in
        post-modern europe for leaders to kill 7000 civilians and just walk away
        from it…. ”

        Agreed.

        Which is why Putin and his co-conspirators should be hanged from the nearest bridge. For instigating these crimes, and doing it with callous stupidity to boot.

        “but as long as the USA/EU support the ethnic cleansing
        campaign which the chocolate salesman is wreaking in the east, it will
        continue….”

        Wonderful.

        Idiot apologizes for actual racist ethnic cleansing. Accuses those fighting back against it of doing so.

        And then drops a racist slur for the whole world to see. Without realizing how any of this makes him look like a moron.

        Truly, moments like these are what renews my faith in victory.

        “and of course the pro-NATO trolls will continue to support the violence here and in other forums.”

        I will continue to support the violence against Putin’s invasion and his local terrorists like I supported the Massachussets Militia’s violence against the Redcoats trying to seize the colony’s means of defense.

        It is defense against oppression, and done with God’s blessing.

        As for actual violence against minorities like Russian speakers (who are not armed terrorists engaging in their own terror), I will be the first to speak out against it.

        I’ve flogged Bandera and those soft balling him ruthlessly for it, after all.

        But the problem is that the more evidence comes to light, the more evidence is that Russian speaking Ukrainians have been killed and oppressed more by Putin and his proxies than by the Ukrainian government. As shown by the fact that idiots such as yourself demonize the Azov Battalion (with some good reason) and ignore that its’ leader is a Russophone.

        But you say, that is business as usual for totalitarian psychotics like yourself and your dear, worshiped Tsar.

        • Murf

          He didn’t wast his irreplaceable time arguing on discussion sites with people who that didn’t give a shit what he thought.
          You could learn from him.

    • Michel Cloarec

      By your avatar, you are a bulgarian, or a greek or a vulgarian with all the diseases possible in your brain infected by huge amount of cheap putin´s vodka ! Wake up if you can, read newspapers (199 prorussian if you want) RT is Bullshit !

      • Michel Cloarec

        Don´t try to play intellectual ! I have great experiences of the trolls factory. I have a sensor on my computer, who reacts to mouldering decay ! PRAVDA is that not a stupid propaganda organ from the glory days of urss ?
        Why not try Rt or Sputnik (same shit) but it does not make any differences for you ! isn´t ?

        • Murf

          I call it the trolldar! Troll and Rader combind, get it!
          Anyway, it is amusing how they all spew the same tire old lines.
          It is also funny how it sounds like the same crap from the Cold War.

          The more things change the more they stay the same.
          At least for Russia.

      • Murf

        We have heard all before.
        You have said nothing new.
        You are like a child who finds a shiny pebble and wants to tell the world about it. Only the world has already seen shiny pebbles before.
        Your bringing up stuff from May and June of last year.
        try to get caught up before you start posting.

      • Michel Cloarec

        Ok you are a vulgarian .

    • Murf

      Well said.

  • Michel Cloarec

    That another troll from St P. Do you watch the lying channel RT 24/7 ? You need glasses and hearaid . It is bull shit ! Your comments show how indotcrinated you are , soon you will be redicalized and get a gun . If you shoot in the right direction, choose the bandit in kremlin, responsible for a miserable country ruled by mafia, ineptocracy, kleptocracy , dictatorship ! You are crazy man ! What about strikes going on round the sump russia. Is not the russian gvnt responsible to make sure that the russians lover of putin get their wages. Instead of sending troops and weapons to the terrorists in micronation of utopia lprdpr . Instead of buying weapons and built cosmodrome. it should make sure that people have something to live for , like food on the table and all other minimun of utility services from the great russia ! Open your eyes !

  • Michel Cloarec

    Did you find out this yourself or did you had help from RT ?
    You are fooled like all the other uggly trolls on putin´s pay roll. Is that the best job you can get ? What about toilets cleaner at the railway station if there is one working !

    • John Shirley

      I always admired someone who answers their own questions, sorta like “if I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you”.

      • The truth

        Debate !

    • The truth

      YOU ATTACK WITH NAZI WORDS ON AN EUROMAIDAN SITE. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ? When I comment article on Novorossia today. I am diplomat and do not start to say they are bloodthirsty ! Even if I think they are ! It would be stupid !

  • Michel Cloarec

    Ukraine even as Ukraine SSR has been suffering so much under the tyranny of the dictatorship of urss/russia . So many years of nul respect for human rights, persecutions, murdering. How can someone believes that Ukraine would accept the words of putin about brotherhood . it is pathetic ! Invasion of Crimea, false elections under the threat of weapons, the persecutions of the tartars population . Invasion of East Ukraine . more false elections in Donetsk and Luhansk
    The self nominated ministers in novoutopia . NOT EVEN RECOGNIZED BY KREMLIN ! . The all world condemning the breach of Budapest agreements, the all world forced to put sanctions on russia ! The non respect of Minsk 1 and 2 . Ukraine has right to refuse the oppressions of a system which did not work for 100 years ! Ukraine has to be free from all this nonsense , get rid of all the prorussians still there trying to influence Ukraine politic. Ukraine is to get rid of all sorts of corruptions .
    Russian army out of Ukraine , it has nothing to do in Ukraine than miserable lives for people . Ukraine will never love russia !

    • Michel Cloarec

      Bunch of nazis

      • Michel Cloarec

        This is from novo-utopia ! Don´t you recognize the flag ?

        20 Grad missile systems to be sent from #Novorossiya to aid #Russia in rebuilding homes destroyed by Siberia’s fascist wildfires.

        Novorossiya [email protected]_PR · 4 tim för 4 timmar sedan

        #Kremlin doctors say #Putin’s delusions growing worse. He now thinks that he’s Vin Diesel and #NATO killed Paul Walker to sabotage #Furious7

        Russians so opposed to fascism in #Novorossiya they go on to celebrate Hitler’s birthday.

      • Michel Cloarec

        You don´t have a clue of what is going on in novo-utopia land . Anarchy ! Why did not putin recognized the cesspit ?

      • The truth

        You are loosing credibility every minutes ! Say you are a pro-russian, and everybody will know. To try to make a discussion starting to use nazi words etc……
        Only shows that you want to insult ! Nobody will listen to you ! and after you have been insulted , you will not understand why.
        YOU HAVE NO GROUND TO ACCUSE THE GVNT IN KIEV TO BE NAZI .

    • Michel Cloarec

      Bunch of thieves and gangsters

      Militia” to “laundering” of marked banknotes (photo)

      17.04.2015 08:13 Society

      In the occupied territory of Donbass “laundered” began to appear, and more precisely painted, notes in denominations of 20 UAH. They were marked with a blue dye, secure vaults at the time of the unauthorized hacking, conducted by militants. Now labeled edges treated special paint in the color of the background notes, the spots become almost unnoticeable. About it on his Facebook page said one of the locals.

      “The people are resourceful. Elongated ATMs money with traces of bright blue paint, they decided to do similar to regular money, stroking on top of blue paint color, as the main background notes. We should pay tribute to the efforts of the nose — until the seller do not tknët, you won’t notice a. .. Unpleasant, “he wrote.
      Carpenter’s took control of currency exchange points in the “LNR”

      17.04.2015 12:15 Society

      Currency exchange offices in Luhansk people’s Republic “came under the control of the” LNR “Igor Carpentry. As reported by informator.lg.ua , source close to the rebels, each “exchanger” is paying a “tax”, which is the head of the Republic. “It is not a secret. Any change knows that tax is Carpentry “, commented source.

      As previously reported, the leader of the “LNR” relates to the sale of fuels in the occupied territories. The petrol stations Of Russian contraband petrol for sale. Revenues from trade gets LNR Igor Carpenter’s. It is also known that the scrap market in the “LNR” placed under the control of the head of the “LNR”. Supermarkets Captured on the territory of the Republic is controlled by family members in the “LNR”. Recall also that the leader of the militia of Stakhanov Pavel Drëmov publicly accused the Carpentry in the theft and fraud by the Russian humanitarian aid. In addition, the business interests of the Republic “is a chain of supermarkets” people’s “(formerly” ATB “). It was earlier reported that through these stores is humanitarian aid from the Russian convoys.

      It was also reported that the head of the “LNR” bought a property near Moscow.

      • The truth

        Why do you suffer from discalculia. You know it is not 7000.
        You loose credibility , blame yourself, you will be insulted, that is the fact. Why can´t you stick to the truth ! always overdue infos .

    • The truth

      Those republics do not exist ! Nobody recognized them NOT EVEN putin and lavrov ! It is an utopia created by persons who thought that russia would support. Russia did not ! The only support to them is weapons, that is the proof and the truth that upprising in Luhansk and Donetsk is only manipulated by kremlin for kremlin own goals.
      I admit that at the beginning when following the events in Kiev (maidan) I tried to follow their demands and tried to understand , were they right or wrong ? Like I tried to understand why wages were not paid to the civil servants in Luhansk during Spring 2014 . For 4 months the civil servants received in 2 times 1200 Grivnas . Why, was my first question . Was Ukraine short of cash ? Where are the wages ? When the pensioners did not receive their pensions, then I thought , OUF! there are big problems. When I discovered that the civil servants without money were supporting the pensioners without pensions , I thought of HOLODOMOR ! i THOUGHT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE NOT AGAIN . It is 2014 the russia must be civilized by now . Impossible to believe
      that russia would want to exterminate other people .
      So I started to investigate . Find out that ukrainians people did not trust the bank system . That their wages and pensions were paid in cash. True or not true ?
      The mafia junta terrorists separatists rebels whatever they can be called (it is not my problem) robbed the fund transports . at that time the separatists were buying weapons for cash (even can admit that some ukrainians crooks sold them )When Kiev stopped the fund transports, the separatists attacked the ATM . Then ATO actions started , the new gvnt had to act accordingly ! Like anywhere in the world when confronted by terrorism !
      With the weapons the separatists became terrorists. And as perfect terrorists they used the terror with NO TRANSPORT,NO BANK,NO ELECTRICTY,NO WATER . ETC……..And they came with the ideas of elections ! Typical terrorism TERROR and ELECTIONS.
      That is when I had to draw conclusions and that I did not have to reflect about the situation. Nearly one year later (today) this lpr/dpr utopia has never been recognized by anyone, not even Moscow.
      If someone can explain why this paradox, I am ready to listen or to read , untill then all the rest is only organized bull shit.
      I am only interested about human lives and the respect of it .
      THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH . and I am not a prophet , I only want the truth and nothing but the truth !

    • The truth

      NOBODY LOVES WARS, BUT THE WAR MONGERS !

  • Michel Cloarec

    RUSSIA IS DOOMED.LPR IS DOOMED.DPR IS DOOMED.NOVOUTOPIA IS DOOMED PUTIN DOES NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE TERRORISTS BECAUSE THEY ARE TERRORISTS ! SOMETIME putin IS CLEVER !
    I think he prefers to kill himself ! To have useful idiots doing the job is not the same !

  • Turtler

    “”racist slur”…??? poroshenko is an ACTUAL chocolate salesman… this is how he became rich enough to buy the presidency….”

    Ah yes, the bit of plausible deniaiblity….

    The problem is that regardless of Poroshenko’s business affilaitions (which are diverse to say the least), the term wasn’t applied to him at first. It was first applied to OBAMA, using the old racist slur.

    It was only about a week after- when the likes of Russia Today realized that they could get in hot shit for using the language of racial hatred against Blacks- and zeroed in on the (relatively marginal) chocolate business interests Poroshenko had. And even then the term has usually been used to reference both of them, or them together.

    So nice try.

    “the rest of yr nonsense is about as carelessly spewed….”

    Then prove it. By your logic it should be easy.

    After all, I took apart your bullshit piece by piece. Why can’t you do the same?

    If you don’t, I think it’s safe to assume you’re just lying. Again.